Input stops working until reset for some software

[Cwiiis]

This is an odd one - I've experienced this on both my STEs. They'll be working fine, but some software (only games so far) causes all input (keyboard, mouse and joystick) to just stop working until the machine is reset, whereby it will then work correctly (until the next time). On my first STE, this problem seemed to disappear after a recap and replacing the bus resistor networks as shown in the mandatory fixes.

For my second STE, the problem seems to be worse - I've not recapped or replaced the bus resistor networks yet, though it is using a new power supply. I was wondering if anyone else has encountered this and knows which particular fix is likely to affect this, if any (and what actually causes this). I've seen this happen with two separate keyboards, so it appears unrelated to that, unless both keyboards I have are failing in the same way that is also somehow mitigated by the mandatory fixes.

As an example of this happening, I'll load up STE Pac-Mania and it will just not respond to any input at all, though the game carries on running fine and showing the demo screens. Similarly, I'll load up Volfied, the joystick will work fine in the menu, but upon starting a game, input stops working. If I wait long enough for the game to end, input does not resume working when the game goes back to the menu, it appears starting the game kills input until a reset. On my previous STE, I saw this on Vroom, where the game would load and show the title screen with the music, but not respond to any input and it would happen intermittently in Gobliins 2, where sometimes upon loading into the game, the mouse cursor would flash a lot and after a short-ish period, stop responding to the mouse (though animation continues). My first STE currently works perfectly in this regard and I'm looking to be a bit more conservative with the work on this second STE.

[exxos]

Maybe try the games in a emulator and see if that tells anything.

[stephen_usher]

Sounds like something is crashing the keyboard processor as otherwise the keyboard just hangs off one of the ACIA chips using a simple serial connection. This is identical to the earlier STs.

[Cwiiis]

The exact same image on emulator (Steem) and FPGA (MiSTer) works correctly, I don't have any issues like this. And like I said, on the STE that's had the recap and resistor networks switched out, things work correctly too - it's just this particular STE (and the other one prior to those fixes). I was just hoping that someone had seen something similar seeing as how I've seen this on two STEs now and it's very reproduceable, but I suppose if you don't play these particular games, you're unlikely to encounter the issue it seems. This STE also has the bad DMA that I've done nothing to mitigate yet, but I don't imagine that coming into play.

[Badwolf]

What do you have plugged into the mouse and joystick ports?

Anything funky or just old fashioned passive components?

I've found the power supply to the keyboards to be marginal at times. If there's a bit too much current draw when you start waggling your stick, or you've a mouse converter that shorts 5V to ground when fire is pressed, for example (they exist), you could simply be browning out the keyboard controller.

I assume the LEDs continue functioning as before after this freeze?

BW

[Cwiiis]

What do you have plugged into the mouse and joystick ports?

Anything funky or just old fashioned passive components?

I've found the power supply to the keyboards to be marginal at times. If there's a bit too much current draw when you start waggling your stick, or you've a mouse converter that shorts 5V to ground when fire is pressed, for example (they exist), you could simply be browning out the keyboard controller.

I assume the LEDs continue functioning as before after this freeze?

BW

Nothing weird in the ports - I do use a USB mouse converter, but I have the exact same issue with just a standard Atari mouse plugged in and nothing else (not even a joystick). The disk access light flickers gently the whole time the machine is on I notice - when I start up Volfied, I notice the flickering gets dimmer, but it never stops. Note that it's never input that causes this, it's an effect triggered by specific software.

I suppose if it's marginal, perhaps if a game causes enough of a voltage drop by stressing more components somehow it can cause this to happen? I'd love to know exactly what's happening here or how to find out, it just feels like wild conjecturing at the moment. It does point to something marginal given a recap/resistor change fixed another machine, of the two I'd suppose it's the recap that would make the difference here, which is disappointing in terms of the amount of work it represents

[Badwolf]

Nothing weird in the ports - I do use a USB mouse converter, but I have the exact same issue with just a standard Atari mouse plugged in and nothing else (not even a joystick).

That rules out one obvious cause, then.

The disk access light flickers gently the whole time the machine is on I notice - when I start up Volfied, I notice the flickering gets dimmer, but it never stops. Note that it's never input that causes this, it's an effect triggered by specific software.

I've heard some software reprograms the IKBD somehow (anyone help out here?). Seems a bit of a flyer, though.

Actually, if the LED is pulsing away normally then that would probably suggest IKBD isn't crashed -- or is the LED not linked to the keyboard controller (anyone)?

I suppose if it's marginal, perhaps if a game causes enough of a voltage drop by stressing more components somehow it can cause this to happen?

I don't think it'd be that bad. It's normally if some active device (like a USB mouse converter) is plugged in and is sucking on the 5V line.

Do I understand correctly 100% of your STs are experiencing this? I was going to suggest doing a little keyboard (or even IKBD) swapsies, but if they're all exhibiting the same behaviour that shan't help.

BW

[Cwiiis]

I've heard some software reprograms the IKBD somehow (anyone help out here?). Seems a bit of a flyer, though.

Actually, if the LED is pulsing away normally then that would probably suggest IKBD isn't crashed -- or is the LED not linked to the keyboard controller (anyone)?

I suppose if it's marginal, perhaps if a game causes enough of a voltage drop by stressing more components somehow it can cause this to happen?

I don't think it'd be that bad. It's normally if some active device (like a USB mouse converter) is plugged in and is sucking on the 5V line.

Do I understand correctly 100% of your STs are experiencing this? I was going to suggest doing a little keyboard (or even IKBD) swapsies, but if they're all exhibiting the same behaviour that shan't help.

BW

Just to clarify, I currently only have this issue on one STE. I did have a milder form of it on a previous STE, but it disappeared after recapping/bus resistor change/DMA fix (hard to know which of those coincided with it disappearing as they all happened in very quick succession). It seems unrelated to the keyboard itself, it seems to be isolated per-machine.

I'll likely do the 1772 pull-ups first as I did get a write-protect error on this machine (that disappeared on a retry), but I don't expect that to be the difference, I'm suspecting of all the things that changed that the recapping is the most likely thing... But if anyone has any suggested debugging steps, I'm all ears FWIW, Volfied and Pac-Mania STE consistently show the issue but only the latter showed the issue on the previous STE when it was suffering, so whatever those two applications do that triggers this, Pac-Mania STE does it worse...

[exxos]

Have you tried something more neutral like the diagnostic cartridge to test the keyboard out with ? Or likely there are keyboard testing software in the PDL somewhere.

[Cwiiis]

Well, this may be indicative of some other issue that could be solved, but I've found that if I disconnect the MIDI cables, the issue goes away! They are quite long, I guess that interferes with things somehow? If anyone knows a fix that would allow me to keep the cables connected, I'm all ears...