Daniel/New Beat

[dhedberg]

Hi,

Here's a short introduction of me. I've been an Atari user since 1988 and I got interested in the demo scene fairly early. I spent the nights during my last years of elementary school reading books on programming the 68000. Eventually I figured it out. Ever since I've loved programming the Atari computers.

Sometime in the first half of the 90's I founded the demo crew New Beat along with some friends. We never released anything for the ST/STe, but we were (and still are) pretty active on the Falcon030. We worked hard on a game called Willie's Adventures before the the development was halted due to university studies. Studies consumed all my time and my Falcon030 was relocated to the closet in which it remained for over 12 years. But eventually I missed the low-level programming so much I had to bring it out on the desk again. I put a CF card in, bought the PARCP-USB and found the cross-assembler vasm and the wonderful text editor Sublime Text. Being able to cross-assemble and execute code remotely on real hardware brought back the inspiration and I'm now programming the Falcon030 again, and it's just as fun as it used to be!

I love the Atari community and I plan to stay around for a while, and my Falcon030 is not going anywhere near the closet again!

--Daniel

[Steve]

Awesome to see you here Daniel, I bought one of your recent projects, the Blowup for Falcon. You are a true inspiration and it is wonderful you are still around! Very excited to see any project you work on.

[dhedberg]

Awesome to see you here Daniel, I bought one of your recent projects, the Blowup for Falcon. You are a true inspiration and it is wonderful you are still around! Very excited to see any project you work on.

Thanks Steve! I have a few projects in the pipeline. Time will tell...

[mikro]

I second Steve, you've done quite a few amazing things! By the way, now you're mentioning Willie's, any chance to finish it? Or at least release source code?

[dhedberg]

I second Steve, you've done quite a few amazing things! By the way, now you're mentioning Willie's, any chance to finish it? Or at least release source code?

Thanks! So have you! There might not be a ton of Falcon030 users left, but considering the number of machines sold I'm surprised how active the community still is! I talked to Thomas about Willie's Adventures the other today and believe it or not but it's still being worked on! I haven't touched the code since 1998 but Thomas has not given up on it. So there's still hope!

[Steve]

I have to say - why are you guys (and when I say you guys, I mean anyone who makes or contributes anything to the community) not interested in doing things like kick starters? I think that our community is old enough and wise enough to support people like you, to bring something good, to honor your worth. Everyone understands that especially with hardware, it costs money to start a project, and with that there is risk for the creator.

[dhedberg]

I have to say - why are you guys (and when I say you guys, I mean anyone who makes or contributes anything to the community) not interested in doing things like kick starters? I think that our community is old enough and wise enough to support people like you, to bring something good, to honor your worth. Everyone understands that especially with hardware, it costs money to start a project, and with that there is risk for the creator.

I can't answer for everyone, but for me it's all about time and having fun. I have a full time job and a family so the time I can spend on my hobbies is limited. With a kickstarter project I'd suddenly have a deadline and everything that comes with that. Nah, keeping it as a hobby gives you freedom and you can work on things because you're motivated, not because you have to.

Oh, and not everyone understands the costs involved in hardware development. Some people just add up the value of the components and wonder why the heck you charge more than $20. Totally failing to see the cost of prototypes, PCB manufacturing, tools, shipping costs, and not to mention the time spent on designing the circuits, looking up and finding suitable components, assembling, testing, packing and shipping, etc, etc. I'd say it's nearly impossible to make money on something that is produced in small series if you take into account all the costs.

[exxos]

With a kickstarter project I'd suddenly have a deadline and everything that comes with that. Nah, keeping it as a hobby gives you freedom and you can work on things because you're motivated, not because you have to.

Exactly! Its why I dont take "pre-orders" anymore. Obligation to complete, then endless emails "any news" and reply "no for several months". Doesn't do anything for motivation and becomes a annoyance more than anything.

Oh, and not everyone understands the costs involved in hardware development. Some people just add up the value of the components and wonder why the heck you charge more than $20. Totally failing to see the cost of prototypes, PCB manufacturing, tools, shipping costs, and not to mention the time spent on designing the circuits, looking up and finding suitable components, assembling, testing, packing and shipping, etc, etc. I'd say it's nearly impossible to make money on something that is produced in small series if you take into account all the costs.

I have that trouble and it's exactly right what you say.

Like I sell my V2 booster for £65, then apparently there is only £10 worth of bits. Which is true, it doesn't look like its worth £65. Though you can check i've spent over £300 in just pcb prototypes in the next revision. I've actually done several revisions over its life, so pick a cost there... All this has to be lumped onto the final "selling price". Even £300 over 10 units built is still £30 per board. Some think my prices are high, and so do I , but when im spending £1,000 a month on this stuff, the money has to come from somewhere... and that is just one project.. I do many.. it soon ramps up to £20,000 believe me!

Its a huge undertaking exactly like you say, I mean have a guess how many parts I have to chose , buy and stock, re-package etc.. its a full time job by itself. Then you get people who moan they can get stuff a little cheaper on ebay than pay a little more from my store and help support future projects which ultimately brings new stuff to the community..

[rubber_jonnie]

People also forget how long it takes to do this sort of thing too, and your time is precious.

I know from working on the RTC project, just how much time it took, what with research, breadboarding, prototyping, testing, re-doing things, and that project was tiny by comparison to some of your projects.

It would help enormously if time was better understood as a cost.

[Steve]

You guys are missing the point a bit, if you don't mind me saying. Chris you mentioned that the price of your product is higher due to the costs of development being added in, well if there was a kick starter to begin with the final product cost might be reduced due to the initial funding. And this is obviously not going to be a popular opinion based on the responses thus far, but expectations from people when they've backed you, how is that a bad thing? Maybe that could be your own doing, maybe if you have a set timeline based on development and production that is open and honest there won't be as much criticism.

Just food for thought

All I'm saying, the biggest point I'm trying to make is this - there is SO much talent in the Atari community to do SO much, and yet many don't based on some of my points. Be brave, say 'I can do this, support me!' and I am sure great things could be achieved.