St cartridge connector

[Pacman]

Frustrating indeed!

Hmmm.. looks like 3.8mm row-spacing could be the correct info.
I'm guessing it can be pushed into an existing Atari footprint and soldered a few mm above the motherboard (if you're replacing the existing Atari cartridge connector), but it won't be an ideal solution -and certainly not with the straight connection instead of right-angled.

It could be forced fitted. But the "simple" solution might be to file the cartridge PCBs to fit if you *have* to use new connectors.

Yes, but that again may render them a little too loose if inserted into an original Atari cartridge connector. And a cartridge shifted too much to the left or right side of the connector could mean traces bridging between contact points.
Frustrating business this cartridge thing! :(

I haven't contacted them for years, there wasn't any point as I cant buy them anyway.

I had no idea about any of this.
You would think that someone in this rather speacalized, closed circle type of business would stick together with other Atari users like glue and gladly sell as much to as many who'd be interested! Very strange attitude and behaviour.
The most frustrating thing is if he's got hundreds of those connectors that you, myself and others need, but there's no willingness to sell. Go figure! :shock:

It's not just the connectors though. You need the metal bracket ( I don't know if Brad has any of those) . So removing from donor boards tends to be the only solution.

I understand. And there's no unlimited supply of those either.
Hope it works out some way or another. You've got some nice projects going there and it would be a pity if this cartridge thing puts a stop to it.
The best of luck, and hopefully someone somewhere will have a good solution. In this day and age with so many possibilities I wouldn't be surprised if someone came up with a good and reasonably costing solution.

[Pacman]

Samtec offers customization of their products and might be worth looking into!
As far as I can tell the changes need not be substantial, and can keep costs down:
- slightly wider internally
- slightly wider row spacing
- longer legs, right angle
- possibly slight differences to the external plastic (so as to be 100% identical to the Atari connectors)

We have the Atari datasheet as well as the ability to check and measure original Atari connectors to compare with.
As far as I understand the internals of the Samtec connector matchines an Atari card-edge (i.e. cartridge device, cartridge or dongle) apart from the narrower width meaning the metal connectors are fine internally. Changing the row spacing slightly might not even need much (if any) changing to the internal design, saving a lot of work.

It might be worth considering.

[Pacman]

Is there any interest in this?
Have you Exxos, or anyone else already contacted Samtec about it (Samtec customization) to check for costs, minimum order, delivery time etc?
I've just ordered a couple of their 40 pin connectors (MEC2-20-01-L-TH1-NP and MEC2-20-01-L-TH1-NP-WT) to evaluate for a cartridge-switcher project that I'm working on, but won't receive them until late August because apparently they're "built to order". I didn't ask about the customization though, as I don't know how much interest there is among the Atari community.

It might be an idea to contact them sooner rather than later for custom designs which may take even longer (however, Samtec says on the page linked above, that simple modifications may take no longer than 4-7 days, so this might not be that complicated to get done).
I'm guessing some good descriptions, the datasheet page of the Atari cartridge connector and possibly an actual Atari connector pulled from an old motherboard or something will make it possible for them to evaluate and present a total cost before ordering.

Depending on costs, this could be a solution for the H4/H5 projects and maybe even making them available for any Atari user through the Exxos store? One thing's for sure: there's just about no competition, so if people would be looking for replacement cartridge connectors they would have to come to you!

[exxos]

Has anyone already contacted Samtec about it (Samtec customization) to check for costs, minimum order, delivery time etc?

Yes.. in 2019, basically they not interested. Even if they were, we would have to get thousands made , plus the tooling. I even contacted other companies . I looked for connector and compatible ones for years, and just gave up in the end.

Not trying to put you off , it be great to have proper new connectors. But also don't forget we need the metal braces as well for motherboards.

EDIT:

Found the email.

Capture.PNG

[Pacman]

You're right -they didn't seem much interested at all unfortunately.
However, when I get the time I'd like to give it a go as well. Who knows -more than 5 years later they might have gotten better/different tools, more options and so on. Once I receive the two types of Samtec connectors I ordered I'll be able to compare them with the original Atari ones and look into how they need to be modified..

Regarding the metal bracket: I really have no idea what I'm talking about, but wouldn't that just involve cutting those metal shapes out of metal sheets at a certain thickness, then bending them at right angles? Unlike the connector there's no internals to complicate things.
I would imagine a handful companies in China being able to do that for next to nothing, but the question is how many you need to order at a bare minimum.

Just in case something comes out of this, how many cartridge connectors (and matching metal brackets) do you estimate you'd need for your H4/H5 projects (and any other projects needing cartridge connectors)? If we do get someone to make them I believe we'll only get one shot at this (i.e. we have to order the estimated number of pieces in one go, as ordering something like 20 more would still mean ordering a bare minimum which would be much more than that).
And how about making them available on your web-shop as well? At least there wouldn't be much competition :lol:

[exxos]

You're right -they didn't seem much interested at all unfortunately.
However, when I get the time I'd like to give it a go as well. Who knows -more than 5 years later they might have gotten better/different tools, more options and so on. Once I receive the two types of Samtec connectors I ordered I'll be able to compare them with the original Atari ones and look into how they need to be modified..

No harm in asking I suppose..

Regarding the metal bracket: I really have no idea what I'm talking about, but wouldn't that just involve cutting those metal shapes out of metal sheets at a certain thickness, then bending them at right angles? Unlike the connector there's no internals to complicate things.
I would imagine a handful companies in China being able to do that for next to nothing, but the question is how many you need to order at a bare minimum.

Polish guys seem to be able to get metal worked on extremely cheaply so there must be options to get them cloned somehow..

Just in case something comes out of this, how many cartridge connectors (and matching metal brackets) do you estimate you'd need for your H4/H5 projects (and any other projects needing cartridge connectors)?

That's a fundamental limit because there is about 20 motherboards left and I don't plan on making any more.. There are likely people out there who would like a new connector or simply don't have one.. But numbers will unfortunately be low.

If we do get someone to make them I believe we'll only get one shot at this (i.e. we have to order the estimated number of pieces in one go, as ordering more will probably mean a new bare minimum).

That's the problem as well, if you end up ordering 10,000+ realistically I think not many of those would actually sell.. Ironically is not normally the connectors or final items which are expensive, it is the tooling costs. Then you have to spread the entire cost over a figure of like 100 connectors as thats all you can assume at best well ever sell over years. The Atari communities as I said a long time, is basically non-existent..

And how about making them available on your web-shop as well? At least there wouldn't be much competition :lol:

Is not a problem to list anything in the store like that. I would certainly happy to stock them but again, even on lower quantities like 100, very low demand and will never likely get the money back on the stock.

So you have to do the maths in all this, you could spend like £20,000 on tooling, and connectors may only be 10p each. But then if projection for 100 connectors will ever sell. then it's like 20,000 / 100 = £200+ per connector... Even 1,000 sold and your still more expensive than BEST. Cause I'm guessing at the figures but you get the idea what a huge problem these things are. Its why the ST case remake hit a brick wall. £150,000 for tooling, cases cost like £8 each to make. Unless you can sell 1000's of cases, its just to expensive.

Is just unfortunately how bad the Atari world is. Realistically every connector on every ST should be replaced by now because they are corroded and bad.. But It's always the same, not many people ever buys stuff anymore.

[Pacman]

Those are indeed very good points ....unfortunately.
And you're probably right about the Atari community being small as well -it's easy to forget when you're in forum discussions with lots of activity. But when I think about it it's usually the same handful of hardcore enthusiasts.
That fact and possible sales are completely different matters of course.

But like you say it doesn't hurt to ask, so I'll add it to my "to do list" and get back here if/when I have some news.