Pin 1 isn't connected as that would be for A8 on a 41256 chip.
Tying pin 9 (A7) high means that the address space is a quarter of the original, so 16Kx1 as the /RAS and /CAS multiplex the address, giving two sets of 6 address lines. There's no way that the chips can give more than 16K in this scenario.
The rise of FreHD
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stephen_usher
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Re: The rise of FreHD
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
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rubber_jonnie
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Re: The rise of FreHD
So much as I thought then. Pin 1 is irrelevant and with pin 9 tied to 5v I should see only 16kb.stephen_usher wrote: 30 Nov 2023 21:16 Pin 1 isn't connected as that would be for A8 on a 41256 chip.
Tying pin 9 (A7) high means that the address space is a quarter of the original, so 16Kx1 as the /RAS and /CAS multiplex the address, giving two sets of 6 address lines. There's no way that the chips can give more than 16K in this scenario.
Why then does the TRS-80 still show 48k of RAM available. Very weird, but I've tested it with both versions of BASIC I have in ROM and both do the same.
I also tried the RAM from my Speccy that's been fixed to 16kb to replace the 4116s and the result is the same.
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
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rubber_jonnie
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Re: The rise of FreHD
Ok, so I think I've figured it out using the memory map shown in the TRS-80 Level II basic book. Pin 9 (A7) on all the RAM IC's is lifted and tied to +5v.
If you look at the image below:
You can see that 'end' of RAM in a 16K machine shows as 32767 in the book. So I poked a value into 32767, and it was fine.
I then tried to poke 32768 with a value and got an OV (Overflow) error. I also tried to PEEK 32768 and also got an overflow error, as do I trying to access any RAM above 32767. This is telling me I have 16KB of RAM, and I can't use anything beyond that limit.
Why the '? MEM' command is telling me I have 48K, I don't really know, but it's lying:
Bug maybe? I don't know, but when the Quinnterface eventually arrives, I should have an extra 32K and will test accessing that memory.
A bit strange, but hey ho.
If you look at the image below:
You can see that 'end' of RAM in a 16K machine shows as 32767 in the book. So I poked a value into 32767, and it was fine.
I then tried to poke 32768 with a value and got an OV (Overflow) error. I also tried to PEEK 32768 and also got an overflow error, as do I trying to access any RAM above 32767. This is telling me I have 16KB of RAM, and I can't use anything beyond that limit.
Why the '? MEM' command is telling me I have 48K, I don't really know, but it's lying:
Bug maybe? I don't know, but when the Quinnterface eventually arrives, I should have an extra 32K and will test accessing that memory.
A bit strange, but hey ho.
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Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
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rubber_jonnie
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Re: The rise of FreHD
Woo hoo, the Quinnterface is in the air on the way from Australia :)
:girldance:
:girldance:
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
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rubber_jonnie
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Re: The rise of FreHD
Sighs...
So it looks like in order to fully revert the TRS-80 to fully revert to 16K I will have to undo some of the wiring changes for the 64KB upgrade.
I can leave the changes that modify the sockets so they have the correct voltages for the 4164's rather than 4116's, but there are RAS and addressing changes I'll need to undo.
I'll have to print out the instructions and work back through, which is annoying as I made a very neat job of the upgrade :(.
Thinking positively, the QI will give me the 32KB back and a hard disk, so on balance I'll be up at the end of the day.
So it looks like in order to fully revert the TRS-80 to fully revert to 16K I will have to undo some of the wiring changes for the 64KB upgrade.
I can leave the changes that modify the sockets so they have the correct voltages for the 4164's rather than 4116's, but there are RAS and addressing changes I'll need to undo.
I'll have to print out the instructions and work back through, which is annoying as I made a very neat job of the upgrade :(.
Thinking positively, the QI will give me the 32KB back and a hard disk, so on balance I'll be up at the end of the day.
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
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stephen_usher
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Re: The rise of FreHD
Does sound a tad annoying.
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
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rubber_jonnie
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Re: The rise of FreHD
Sadly yes.
Having spoken to the provider of the QI, he's told me that I'll have to in order for it to correctly revert to 16k and so it will work with the QI.
The original EI was easy, just a few small mods and it's good to go with a 64kb base machine.
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
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rubber_jonnie
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Re: The rise of FreHD
Ooooh.
The QI has arrived in the UK, I'd better get on with reverting the TR-80!!!
The QI has arrived in the UK, I'd better get on with reverting the TR-80!!!
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Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
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stephen_usher
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Re: The rise of FreHD
:girldance: :girldance: :girldance: :girldance: :girldance:
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
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rubber_jonnie
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- Posts: 14888
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- Location: Essex
Re: The rise of FreHD
Celebrations aside, it's time to undo my 64KB upgrade....
16KB here we come.
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
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