The rise of the lazy

[rubber_jonnie]

It's nice to see the varied perspectives on here, I don't start these in the hope that everybody will agree with me, and vice versa. It would be bad if everybody did.

I'll be honest, I see it a lot of it around retro computers, but I also see it in life generally, and whilst I'm a helpful person, I am getting fatigued with the change I've seen in people, and it makes me despair.

It's tiring being a helpful person all the time when people can be so rude and ungrateful.

As to your point @alexh I get what you're saying about people inheriting, and not being enthusiasts like us, but if you're taking up a hobby like this, you need to become an enthusiast, or you're not going to get the enjoyment out of it you might. People want instant gratification these days because modern kit is so reliable, then when they don't get it from a 30-40 year old machine, they get cranky.

I'm happy to share information, look at all I've done on this forum, but some (Not all) of these people just don't get these machines and want answers that will get them going right away without even the merest amount of their own research.

If you really want nostalgia without the pain, then theres an emulator for that. I'd far prefer to help somebody get an emulator going from scratch, than spend hours trying to help somebody with a real machine who isn't prepared to learn a bit for themselves, or at least understanding that it has taken me years to acquire all my skills, something that these machines require. It's like owning an old car, you need to be aware of their foibles over a new car and be prepared to put in the effort, or you'll spend a lot of time on the side of the road broken down.

As for my Dad, god rest his soul, no he couldn't fix an ST, but he would at least have tried to find out some basic stuff himself before admitting defeat.

I even see this at work. I troubleshoot complex app problems that people are struggling with, not by knowing everything, but by following a process. Before we get engaged, we expect that people have done the basics, but a lot of the time they simply don't even look at the logs, and are then surprised when I point out errors in their logs that they could have found themselves.

It's a kind of fast food attitude to knowledge where somebody else can do all the work while you enjoy the result, and I simply don't like it, despite the joy I get from helping people.

My solution is simply going to be to refer people to forums, where they might stand a better chance of getting the help they need without expecting me to Google/Bing/<insert search engine here> it for them.

Of course anybody on here will get my help as ever.

Damn it, what I was hoping to be a short reply turned into another epic rant, sorry folks, I'll shut up now (I do feel loads better for getting it out of my system though)

[stween]

I find that the Millennials, Gen Z and Gen A have become time poor and overloaded with information from the multitude of communication platforms they use.

I'm 40 and therefore right in the millennial bracket, albeit at the top end. Don't worry, gen Z and gen alpha have left us in the dust. :lol:

[exxos]

I think this forum is a good test of people. First they have to find it. Either search engine or clicking a link. If they can't do that, they don't arrive here.

Then the second layer of required effort is to actually sign up here. To which they will have to do some work to answer the sign up questions.

It's a pretty good "lazy filter" really.

[Steve]

I find that the Millennials, Gen Z and Gen A have become time poor and overloaded with information from the multitude of communication platforms they use.

I'm 40 and therefore right in the millennial bracket, albeit at the top end. Don't worry, gen Z and gen alpha have left us in the dust. :lol:

Yeah millennials are 40 now, that's the generation that grew up with the very first internet and all used forums and search engines before Google was invented. So IMO millennials are some of the best forum and search engine users (I'm one of them) if you compare me to someone ten years older I'm generally twice as fast at doing internet research.

[rubber_jonnie]

Yeah millennials are 40 now, that's the generation that grew up with the very first internet and all used forums and search engines before Google was invented. So IMO millennials are some of the best forum and search engine users (I'm one of them) if you compare me to someone ten years older I'm generally twice as fast at doing internet research.

I'm Gen X and feel like I'm pretty good with Google :)

[alexh]

I get what you're saying about people not being enthusiasts like us, but if you're taking up a hobby like this, you need to become an enthusiast, or you're not going to get the enjoyment out of it you might. People want instant gratification these days because modern kit is so reliable, then when they don't get it from a 30-40 year old machine, they get cranky. If you really want nostalgia without the pain, then there's an emulator for that.

I think you're suffering from an inability to understand how intelligent you must be? (Oxymoron if ever I wrote one)

Computer enthusiasts are typically in the top 1% of intelligence. Computer owners/users are not usually that high. Some users will be INCAPABLE of becoming computer enthusiasts as we know them because they just don't have the genetic aptitude. (But then I can't draw, I'm terrible at spelling, my verbal and written language skills are borderline with just English etc etc).

Even using some emulators today are beyond the ordinary user as they are written by computer enthusiasts for computer enthusiasts. Engineers who don't always have ergonomic experience designing intuitive GUIs. They are often functional and sometimes overwhelming with all their options (WinUAE / Hatari). The concept of "Advanced" options often forgotten. Users are used to switching on, inserting disks.

Which is why the "Mini" devices (SNES Mini, Megadrive Mini, Playstation Mini, Amiga Mini) have been so successful. Despite being underpowered compared to a £10 Raspberry Pi Zero 2W.

[rubber_jonnie]

I get what you're saying about people not being enthusiasts like us, but if you're taking up a hobby like this, you need to become an enthusiast, or you're not going to get the enjoyment out of it you might. People want instant gratification these days because modern kit is so reliable, then when they don't get it from a 30-40 year old machine, they get cranky. If you really want nostalgia without the pain, then there's an emulator for that.

I think you're suffering from an inability to understand how intelligent you must be? (Oxymoron if ever I wrote one)

Computer enthusiasts are typically in the top 1% of intelligence. Computer owners/users are not usually that high. Some users will be INCAPABLE of becoming computer enthusiasts as we know them because they just don't have the genetic aptitude. (But then I can't draw, I'm terrible at spelling, my verbal and written language skills are borderline with just English etc etc).

Even using some emulators today are beyond the ordinary user as they are written by computer enthusiasts for computer enthusiasts. Engineers who don't always have ergonomic experience designing intuitive GUIs. They are often functional and sometimes overwhelming with all their options (WinUAE / Hatari). The concept of "Advanced" options often forgotten. Users are used to switching on, inserting disks.

Which is why the "Mini" devices (SNES Mini, Megadrive Mini, Playstation Mini, Amiga Mini) have been so successful. Despite being underpowered compared to a £10 Raspberry Pi Zero 2W.

I'll take that as a compliment :)

As for the other stuff, I don't disagree with it at all, and as for the 'Mini' devices, this comes back to the 'Fast Food' analogy I made. The 'cooks', so Nintendo, Sega, Sony, Atari etc, really did see the opportunity to make money from people who want to tap into that early nostalgia, but with the ease of plugging in a desktop lamp.

I think I just want those folks to go down that route and leave the real hardware to the enthusiasts.