LAN project for someone using 68K expansion slot on the H5

[Steve]

Oh yes, I still have that adapter at home. For plain Falcon it is a great addon, reaching about 200 KB/s transfer rate.

I never understood how the same device running off the dodgy read only write-by-trick cartridge port can achieve 500k/s on an accelerated Falcon (netusbee), surely one plugged directly into the Falcons data bus like that should be touching 1/mb a second? I don't see why it's so slow.

[Steve]

If the idea is to go wireless, there is a very early version of Fujinet for the ST being discussed on the Fujinet Discord (https://discord.gg/m95y85B2) at the moment. This would avoid cutting any case (it uses ACSI port) and enable usage of some modern protocols.

You might have missed what Exxos said but this is for the H5 fitting into one of its internal 68k expansion sockets, so no case cutting needed (unless you're thinking of cutting a hole for the rj45 port) but yeah I don't see why a simple WiFi couldn't be incorporated too, perhaps using @czietz's awesome software he wrote for selecting WiFi channel on his wireless clock hardware.

[mikro]

Oh yes, I still have that adapter at home. For plain Falcon it is a great addon, reaching about 200 KB/s transfer rate.

I never understood how the same device running off the dodgy read only write-by-trick cartridge port can achieve 500k/s on an accelerated Falcon (netusbee), surely one plugged directly into the Falcons data bus like that should be touching 1/mb a second? I don't see why it's so slow.

Don't forget it was his first attempt, IIRC he mentioned to me that he could speed it up noticeably if he enabled an interrupt line or something like that.

Also, on 030 the difference isn't *that* big when it comes to the faked writing on the cartridge port (reading is always done in full capacity). I'm pretty sure that if you booted your Falcon in 030 mode, you'd get similar numbers (~200 KB/s) for the NetUSBee.

[exxos]

Indeed wireless is possible. Though if there is already a "external" solution which uses a port I don't think it's going to help much with a "internal" solution.Unless someone is willing to do the necessary adaptions.

In terms of people not liking the idea of a LAN port because of cutting the case.. I think people need to remember that the H5 is simply a stable platform to build upon. Indeed why @Icky Is working on various cases and back panel designs. We are already pushing VGA/HDMI ports on H5 upgrades. Nowhere to put IDE ports externally etc So we are at the point of cutting the case anyway now.

True the H5 currently fits in the original case. So people can use it as a easy upgradable platform. There is intention is to "move on" from this point. New incarnations of the motherboard may well have more features and even be smaller and not fit in original cases at all anymore. But this is why I started the legacy board Which is a half sized motherboard just with one expansion slot based upon the H5. It will still fit in a original case or a remake case. Problem being, producing motherboards is extremely expensive and time consuming. Plus there needs to be significant people interested in the project before I re-spin another motherboard. So I'm not sure if/when that project will be completed.

There are already a fair few H4 & H5 boards out there. As far as I'm concerned doing "legacy" stuff is basically done. The next step is to design various add-ons which people want or would be useful etc. Then this gives the option for H5 users to upgrade. The next incarnation of the motherboard would be integrating all these projects are moving more towards FPGA cores as original chips are not easy to obtain etc. But getting off topic now..

But of course I cannot build the entire platform all by myself hence the request for people to design useful upgrades for the platform, like a LAN addon.

[alexh]

It's about usability as well as cutting the case for the Ethernet socket. Who uses their Atari in the same room as their router these days? In our house the router is in the living room and the "man cave" is the upstairs spare bedroom. Gone are the days where running ethernet cables up the stairs was acceptable I'm afraid.

If the Atari ST serial port is upto it, perhaps an internal serial port header with power?

If not I am sure I could add a 680x0 bus interface to one of the tens of more powerful open-source serial port implentations (with FIFO) to give the Atari a 2nd serial port to connect to Wifi chip.

[Steve]

It's about usability as well as cutting the case for the Ethernet socket. Who uses their Atari in the same room as their router these days? In our house the router is in the living room and the "man cave" is the upstairs spare bedroom. Gone are the days where running ethernet cables up the stairs was acceptable I'm afraid.

If the Atari ST serial port is upto it, perhaps an internal serial port header with power?

If not I am sure I could add a 680x0 bus interface to one of the tens of more powerful open-source serial port implentations (with FIFO) to give the Atari a 2nd serial port to connect to Wifi chip.

This is about the H5 and using one of the internal 68k expansion sockets. You could build ethernet and wifi onto one device plugging directly into the 68k bus.

[Darklord]

Wouldn't help much here, I guess but I really like the NETUSBee and
PicoWifi combo here. Dead easy to use with UIP-Tool and pretty darned
fast, even on a Mega ST/Mega STe.

Also, as far as a wireless serial port angle goes, the WiModem232 is
absolutely the bomb. I've been using it on DarkForce! for a few months
now and it's crazy great. Jim Drew gives awesome support and even
warranty's the device for *life*. Think about that.

https://www.cbmstuff.com/index.php?rout ... duct_id=59?

Again, not sure how much this would go towards being viable with the
H4/H5...

[Steve]

It's getting a little frustrating people talking about ST alternatives like Netusbee / Picowifi etc - Can I re-itterate again this is about the H5 and using an internal 68k expansion socket...

Sorry to go on and on!!! But people aren't reading the topic.

(I think this is the third time I've mentioned it now)
@exxos perhaps you could edit the title of the thread?

[exxos]

@Steve I have edited the title.

Things which use the cartridge port always seem a little flaky. Basically hacked because the cartridge port does not have WRITE functionality for starters. I really want to just move over to a proper implementation of LAN on the 68K bus. Something neatly tucked away internally and not hanging out the back like a lot of other stuff already. Don't get me wrong I'm not against any such projects. Just not what I want to get done.

True serial of DMA port could be used. internal or external but there is no easy expansion for the serial port internally. DMA might be easier as it has a internal port but I have been mostly considering removing that anyway.

The overall point is that LAN needs to be able to plug in easily into a 68K slot on the H4 / H5. People can simply plug it in and try it out. If it is proven to be stable then you can go on the list to be integrated into any future motherboard designs.

The one which @Badwolf posted for the Falcon. Does not seem to be much more than a address decoder feeding the LAN chip. I don't think the hardware would really take that much doing. Fixing the software side of things will probably be where the majority of the effort will be.

[Darklord]

It's getting a little frustrating people talking about ST alternatives like Netusbee / Picowifi etc - Can I re-itterate again this is about the H5 and using an internal 68k expansion socket...

Sorry to go on and on!!! But people aren't reading the topic.

(I think this is the third time I've mentioned it now)
@exxos perhaps you could edit the title of the thread?

I apologize Steve, I was actually responding to Alex's comment about running cables
all over the house and offering an alternative.

Again, apologies... :(