Term power mod for TT installed

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mikro
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Re: Term power mod for TT installed

Post by mikro »

exxos wrote: 12 Dec 2021 19:13 I'm a bit lost now. So you did the mod, and there is no termination now internal or external ? In which case the mod wouldn't be doing anything anyway now ?
I'm equally confused (I don't mean that Steve did something wrong I just don't understand what has happened here). The whole idea of that fix is to deliver +5V to the given pin(s). If RaSCSI has +5V on that pin, and Steve said he had it enabled all the time, this fix shouldn't fix anything at all.

To me it looks like the RaSCSI has some trouble with using its own +5V for termination purposes. I.e. it not only doesn't "emit" TERM PWR properly but can't use it even internally within the device.

That would explain why external +5V helped here.
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exxos
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Re: Term power mod for TT installed

Post by exxos »

mikro wrote: 12 Dec 2021 22:17 I'm equally confused (I don't mean that Steve did something wrong I just don't understand what has happened here). The whole idea of that fix is to deliver +5V to the given pin(s). If RaSCSI has +5V on that pin, and Steve said he had it enabled all the time, this fix shouldn't fix anything at all.

To me it looks like the RaSCSI has some trouble with using its own +5V for termination purposes. I.e. it not only doesn't "emit" TERM PWR properly but can't use it even internally within the device.

That would explain why external +5V helped here.
I can't even say what RaSCSI is, I have never seen one, but maybe if there was a schematic for it it would maybe help. But if Steve has removed the resistors internally and externally, nothing has been fixed and the original fault should appear again AFAIK.

But again the problem with these machines are, switch them off overnight, switch them on again, and things either magically start working or go to hell kinda thing. So I this point I really wonder was just simply a fluke it started working. :shrug:

The only way to really answer this I guess, is if @Steve Make sure is hard drive is working properly, then removes that mod, and see if the hard drive is still working or not. Of course this has to be done all at once for it to be a fair test.

All I can work out so far, is there is some sort of strange termination issues going on somehow / somewhere .
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exxos
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Re: Term power mod for TT installed

Post by exxos »

Think I found the schematic..

https://github.com/akuker/RASCSI/blob/m ... in.sch.pdf

Capture.JPG

So this is, I assume, what @Steve Did, but on the TT end. Which also now puts in question if the raSCSI switch or fuse is broken... again @Steve Would have to verify this himself..
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Steve
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Re: Term power mod for TT installed

Post by Steve »

I now have this on the rear of my TT, everything still working great since the mod. No internal resistors installed.

PXL_20211213_120153031.jpg
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derkom
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Re: Term power mod for TT installed

Post by derkom »

Steve wrote: 13 Dec 2021 12:07 I now have this on the rear of my TT, everything still working great since the mod. No internal resistors installed.
Love that classic packaging. :) Reminds me of a time just last year when I needed a HD15-to-RGBHV cable and I was surprised to find a small local shop actually had one in stock. When I went to pick it up, it had a similar style of retro packaging, and was covered in dust. The shopkeeper remarked, "you were lucky to get this", and I silently thought to myself, "no, you were lucky to sell this!" :lol:
mikro
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Re: Term power mod for TT installed

Post by mikro »

Now that I have played with BlueSCSI and TT a bit, I understand the issue of TT's terminators better.

In its basic configuration, TT is ready for either an internal SCSI disk or an external SCSI disk but never both at the same time because the terminator resistor array is in the middle.

If I want to use both sides (internal and external SCSI devices), I have to remove those three resistor arrays. That implies that both devices must be properly terminated. Then, power sources can be tricky:

- power can come from the power connector on the device
- power can come from SCSI bus (the TERMPWR pin)
- power can come from the power connector on the device *and* can be fed to SCSI bus (i.e. being the source of TERMPWR)
- power can be fed *only* to SCSI bus (TERMPWR)

The simplest setup is that drives just accept power from their 4-pin power connector, use it for its own functionality (incl. possible termination) and that's that.

Now, how this mod comes into play? If I want just an internal disk + external BlueSCSI, there's no need for the mod, both devices power their own terminators. However, if I occasionally want to connect BlueSCSI (or any other device - CD ROM, ZIP drive, ...) without opening the TT every time, I need to have the resistors removed and the external part of the bus terminated when there is no external device connected in order to have the internal device working properly.

And this is when the mod is useful - as @frank.lukas pointed out: https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 93#p460493 even the passive terminator (basically the device @Steve posted above) needs +5V to work properly. So if my BlueSCSI is not currently connected, I need two things:

- +5V on the TERMPWR pin (this mod)
- an external terminator connected to the DB25 connector

Initially, I misunderstood @frank.lukas's statement here: https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 58#p460458:
In order for terminators to work on the external SCSI port, an external SCSI device must feed term power onto the SCSI bus.
I thought he meant by the "terminators" the internal (removable) ones but no, what he meant there was without this mod you have to have yet another device on the external side which would be the source of +5V.

From @Steve's initial post is not clear what he was trying to fix -- he ended up with removed resistors, an internal device and an external terminator but why he was so keen to remove the internal resistors in the first place is unknown because such setup (assuming an internal RaSCSI) is perfectly legal and should have worked.
Steve
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Re: Term power mod for TT installed

Post by Steve »

It's a while ago @mikro and my memory is foggy, all I can tell you is that I was getting very intermittent SCSI problems constantly, HD Driver randomly not picking up the device. When I installed the 5v term power mod and fitted the external terminator my problems went away. Really whether it fixes / helps flaky SCSI or not I dunno, but it's certainly convenient not having to run a molex power to internal devices like BlueSCSI (which I use now). So either way it's still an awesome upgrade in my books.

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