exxos's Atari, Amiga & retro forum

Hi all.

So I have been using ST's for many years, I recently bought a 520STE upgraded to 4Mb.. in absolutely amazing condition.
My software library is built up since the 90s and includes many originals but also automation/medway boys etc and coverdisks/utils.
What I am disappointed by is the number of disks that simply refuse to run on my STE... only around 30 to 40% of them boot. I still have my 1040ST so know it is not the disks themselves.

I can't help but wonder is the STE the right machine for classic gaming.

I have recently purchased an SD4ST cartridge and it came with a lot of games installed and I am aware that some game versions are downloadble *fixed* for the STE, but not sure how many are out there? One of the reasons for getting the STE was I am liking some of new games enhanced for STE such as Outrun, Lotus, Grind, etc. I also like doing a bit of serious stuff so thought the STE would be more capable for me with this (though games are the primary use).

Could there be something wrong with my STE perhaps or is it accurate that most disks from the ST's hey day 1985 to 1992 simply don't work on an STE ??
I seem to remember my old 512k running any disk I threw at it so it's disappointing that a more powerful machine like the STE simply won't run a lot of my favourite games.

Would an ST with a RAM upgrade be better so I can use my old disks as well as the SD4ST ? Or is the STE the machine to have with awesomeness that I am not yet aware of ?

Any thoughts/advice appreciated.

Regards,

Grab games from online sources like Dbug, Klaz and P.Pera.

They've adapted many, many games over the years to run
on just about any ST, including mass storage, newer versions
of TOS, added RAM, trainers, etc.

https://d-bug.me/

http://www.klapauzius.net/Old_Games.html

https://atari.8bitchip.info/fromhd3.php?s=n#DL

Hope this helps.

PS You didn't mention if you have mass storage or not (Ultrasatan, ACSI2STM, etc)
If you don't, why not? Your STe deserves some kind of mass storage...! :)

Some disks from 1985-1989 don't work on STe hardware but lots don't work because of the newer TOS 1.62 ROM

Once the STe came out there were a lot of "v2" releases of older disks to make them STe/TOS1.62 compatible.

As has already been said, why use disks? Use HDD installed games. They load much faster. They are STe/TOS1.62 compatible

You didn't mention if you have mass storage or not (Ultrasatan, ACSI2STM, etc)

He did. He's got an SD2ST which is an unnecessarily expensive ACSI2STM.

The sound is so much better on STe (if the game supports DMA sound) and the colour palette is so much better too. You don't notice it unless you put STe and STfm next to one another running STe enhanced games / demos.

alexh wrote: 16 May 2025 07:24 Some disks from 1985-1989 don't work on STe hardware but lots don't work because of the newer TOS 1.62 ROM

Of course it wasn't just the STe which broke some games, there was a long history of lazy coding. Some games wouldn't work if there was more than 512K in the machine. Some early games broke with TOS 1.2, others broke with 1.4.

(Yes, I'm using the original TOS version numbers, [Major version].[Minor version][Patch level])

The STE will always be better from a hardware point of view, but from a compatibility point of view you'll hit problems.

For maximum compatibility you need an ST and STE IMHO, and you have both. I would also suggest that TOS 1.04 is used for the ST and TOS 2.06 for the STE.

Many incompatible games are now fixed for STE and there are huge lists of games, just look at the links provided earlier, but if it is original floppies, many of which may pre-date the STE then its a case of accepting the disks you have may simply be incompatible with the STE and only replacing them with fixed versions will resolve this.

Also if you are wanting to see some of the enhanced games, then the STE is the only way.

Check all the links, you may change your mind.

rubber_jonnie wrote: 16 May 2025 09:54 For maximum compatibility you need an ST and STE IMHO, and you have both. I would also suggest that TOS 1.04 is used for the ST and TOS 2.06 for the STE.

+1

It's in part why I did dualtos boards. like 1.04 and 1.02 for the STFM. Its argued that TOS1.00 is most compatible, but that's not going to work well with hard drives anyway I believe.

1.06 may work better for the STE with some games, but there is never going to be a "one size fits all" with Atari stuff. To much hardware and software changed over the years.

If I might say a word or two...

Unfortunately, you cant have it all. :( (Unless, like mentioned above, you got one of each ROM or machine).

Its a similar situation for Falcon/TT owners.

I guess to have what you want (full games compatibility), you would have to roll back to something like the C64.

The 16 bit machines (Amiga/Atari) had several updates to their ROM routines (i.e. Kickstart/TOS).

Programs could either be coded through the ROM routines (generally considered the correct way/best practice), or hitting the registers directly.

Alas, to make really great/fast/bleeding edge games, it was often necessary to bypass the ROM routines and hit the registers directly.

This being the case, in the major machine updates (i.e. ST>STe or Amiga A500>A1200) the HW register locations would sometimes either change, or pack more information into previously unused areas, which caused problems.

Also, regarding ROM updates to the same machines; coders would often access ROM routines directly (rather than from the correct jump table address). This could change on a ROM update so therefore cause problems.

There is even the case of exact cycle timing not being 100% between the machines, even very similar ones (Mega ST vs STFM/ STFM/Mega ST blitter vs STe blitter, etc), which causes timings to be out and therefore cause problems. This is a more unusual case, generally with highly synchronized demos but it does still happen.

A lot of work has been done (the previously mentioned Klaz/Dbug/PPera, etc) to patch these games, but you will have to weigh up the all the variables to see what solution is best for you personally.

@alexh

"He did. He's got an SD2ST which is an unnecessarily expensive ACSI2STM."

Apologies - missed that. :)

To me STE is kind of the sweet spot, of not crazy expensive or rare, compatible enough with games I care about, and has some interesting features I didn't have in the day with sound and graphics. I think most of the important games of the era can be made to work on STE.
Thing is, I don't have a collection of boxed games though. There was a lot of sketchy programming on those old games. I wonder if taking the machine down to 512K RAM would help some? Nostalgia is a personal matter, really, if you really want the full 'boot from floppy experience', maybe you need a proper 520ST. These aren't that expensive.
All these 68000 machines are going to be crashy, a little bit, this is kind of part of it. Pre OSX Mac was the same way, really. 68000's 32-bit pointers combined with no memory protection just made for unstable times.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I will check out the links that have been provided and sell my old disks that won't run.
I will of course keep the originals/boxed versions :)

Regards.