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Disk won't format from TOS 1.04 if Ultrasatan is plugged in.
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 12:35
by Cosmic Puppet
It was after this that I noticed this discrepancy in free space when I insert the EmuTos formatted disk.
20191030_121156.jpg
When in TOS 1.04 you get a different number.
20191030_114734.jpg
I checked back on old photos and they report the same in TOS 1.04
Can someone format a disk in TOS 1.04 and see if they get the same bytes free?
I just want to know if something is faulty, as I had a lot of problems with the machine initially. Need my mind putting to rest.
Re: Disk won't format from TOS 1.04 if Ultrasatan is plugged in.
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 12:53
by JezC
I'm sure Exxos will chip in, but this sounds like a problem people had with the alpha board... can't exactly remember all the details but some issue with dma and floppy.
It might have been Icky?
Will dig out the thread tonight if you have not found it by then.
Good luck.
Re: Disk won't format from TOS 1.04 if Ultrasatan is plugged in.
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 12:54
by JezC
726016 sounds correct for DSDD floppy on an Atari.
Re: Disk won't format from TOS 1.04 if Ultrasatan is plugged in.
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 14:15
by Cosmic Puppet
JezC wrote: 30 Oct 2019 12:53
I'm sure Exxos will chip in, but this sounds like a problem people had with the alpha board... can't exactly remember all the details but some issue with dma and floppy.
It might have been Icky?
Will dig out the thread tonight if you have not found it by then.
Good luck.
It will copy disks with ultrasatan plugged in but when I try to format a disk it fails. This renders the before working disk unreadable after the attempt. If I then put the disk into my EmuTos I can format it and it works again. I did this with Notator's format too and it worked.
Re: Disk won't format from TOS 1.04 if Ultrasatan is plugged in.
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 18:26
by Cosmic Puppet
Cosmic Puppet wrote: 30 Oct 2019 14:15
JezC wrote: 30 Oct 2019 12:53
I'm sure Exxos will chip in, but this sounds like a problem people had with the alpha board... can't exactly remember all the details but some issue with dma and floppy.
It might have been Icky?
Will dig out the thread tonight if you have not found it by then.
Good luck.
It will copy disks with ultrasatan plugged in but when I try to format a disk it fails. This renders the before working disk unreadable after the attempt. If I then put the disk into my EmuTos I can format it and it works again. I did this with Notator's format too and it worked.
I'll try and look for it tomorrow if you don't. Not had so much free time today and got more to do in a while.
Re: Disk won't format from TOS 1.04 if Ultrasatan is plugged in.
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 21:50
by exxos
FCOPY for example optimizes the disk so you end up with 728064 bytes. TOS is not optimised so you get 726016 bytes free. As you seem to get 728064 bytes in EMUTOS then that also must be optimised..
You can try this as FCOPY PRO has 3 options for this!
Format one with optimised, drop to desktop and view floppy info.. then repeat with TOS option, and you will see the difference in the free bytes.
Capture.JPG
Re: Disk won't format from TOS 1.04 if Ultrasatan is plugged in.
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 22:29
by JezC
Cosmic Puppet wrote: 30 Oct 2019 18:26
Cosmic Puppet wrote: 30 Oct 2019 14:15
It will copy disks with ultrasatan plugged in but when I try to format a disk it fails. This renders the before working disk unreadable after the attempt. If I then put the disk into my EmuTos I can format it and it works again. I did this with Notator's format too and it worked.
I'll try and look for it tomorrow if you don't. Not had so much free time today and got more to do in a while.
I think it's somewhere around here
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/forum/viewt ... &start=490 (or soon after).
Part of it seems to be a mixture of problematic DMA and 1772 devices...but there is a more general fix to add pull-ups on the databus (and also on 1772)
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/forum/viewt ... xes#p27505
Not sure if you've already tried any of these...but the Ultrasatan (or other ACSI peripheral) being plugged in & affecting the floppy operation (formatting) has appeared a few times for different people.
<H4 plug>
Just to make it clear - these sorts of problems on the various ST/STF/STFM/STE motherboard versions (and later machines too) are the driving force behind Exxos trying to design the new H4 Mongrel board (to design out as many of the issues found in the last 30+ years as he can) so that he (and others) can focus on the future upgrades rather than trouble-shooting the issues with each design on different boards.
If you want to help support the noble efforts of the team (and sadly I'm not one of them...would love to have the time to help them out though!) then tomorrow (31st October) is the last day to pre-order the Mongrel H4 board at the discount price...
</H4 plug>
Posting your discoveries here is a great help to us all to find & remove as many of these little hardware 'foibles' as we can...so even if trying things doesn't work for you, that information is still very helpful.
Hope you get to the root cause of this soon!
Re: Disk won't format from TOS 1.04 if Ultrasatan is plugged in.
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 22:49
by Cosmic Puppet
I remembered that I haven't tried HD Driver yet as it's £40 but that may help and is something I may do at some point. It's good to know because I feel like I'm being annoying as my mind doesn't understand what would seem basic to some. I don't even know how to create a zip file! :lol: Also...Why does the Atari time only count in 2 second intervals!! :D
Re: Disk won't format from TOS 1.04 if Ultrasatan is plugged in.
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 22:51
by Cosmic Puppet
JezC wrote: 30 Oct 2019 22:29
Cosmic Puppet wrote: 30 Oct 2019 18:26
I'll try and look for it tomorrow if you don't. Not had so much free time today and got more to do in a while.
I think it's somewhere around here
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/forum/viewt ... &start=490 (or soon after).
Part of it seems to be a mixture of problematic DMA and 1772 devices...but there is a more general fix to add pull-ups on the databus (and also on 1772)
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/forum/viewt ... xes#p27505
Not sure if you've already tried any of these...but the Ultrasatan (or other ACSI peripheral) being plugged in & affecting the floppy operation (formatting) has appeared a few times for different people.
<H4 plug>
Just to make it clear - these sorts of problems on the various ST/STF/STFM/STE motherboard versions (and later machines too) are the driving force behind Exxos trying to design the new H4 Mongrel board (to design out as many of the issues found in the last 30+ years as he can) so that he (and others) can focus on the future upgrades rather than trouble-shooting the issues with each design on different boards.
If you want to help support the noble efforts of the team (and sadly I'm not one of them...would love to have the time to help them out though!) then tomorrow (31st October) is the last day to pre-order the Mongrel H4 board at the discount price...
</H4 plug>
Posting your discoveries here is a great help to us all to find & remove as many of these little hardware 'foibles' as we can...so even if trying things doesn't work for you, that information is still very helpful.
Hope you get to the root cause of this soon!
Thanks, I've just bookmarked these pages for tomorrow. I love what the guys are doing, but it's way over my head. Watched a program about customers having a lot of issues when various Ataris where released. TOS 1.00 is awful!
Re: Disk won't format from TOS 1.04 if Ultrasatan is plugged in.
Posted: 30 Oct 2019 23:11
by Cosmic Puppet
exxos wrote: 30 Oct 2019 21:50
FCOPY for example optimizes the disk so you end up with 728064 bytes. TOS is not optimised so you get 726016 bytes free. As you seem to get 728064 bytes in EMUTOS then that also must be optimised..
You can try this as FCOPY PRO has 3 options for this!
Format one with optimised, drop to desktop and view floppy info.. then repeat with TOS option, and you will see the difference in the free bytes.
Capture.JPG
That was doing my head in last night. If I select Optimised I get a Cannot read FAT at the end of the format. When I select TOS it works stating 728064, but...TOS 1.04 displays it as 726016. Fast Copy 3 is better for a novice like me because it's hard to screw it up. :lol: