exxos's Atari, Amiga & retro forum

terriblefire wrote: 20 Feb 2022 22:10 I use a dishwasher. Nothing beats it.

Like for real? :D What do you put there, normal dish washer tablets?

And cheers @Steve that's a lot if useful information there! Also thanks to the others, what a useful thread this has become.

mikro wrote: 20 Feb 2022 22:33

terriblefire wrote: 20 Feb 2022 22:10 I use a dishwasher. Nothing beats it.

Like for real? :D What do you put there, normal dish washer tablets?

And cheers @Steve that's a lot if useful information there! Also thanks to the others, what a useful thread this has become.

Yeah. 2 tablets actually and make sure the rinse aid is topped off.. One in the drawer and one thrown in the bottom. I've a warm kitchen so i leave the boards for 2-3 days before using them.

The reasons for using the dishwasher the way i do come from

terriblefire wrote: 20 Feb 2022 23:14Yeah. 2 tablets actually and make sure the rinse aid is topped off.. One in the drawer and one thrown in the bottom. I've a warm kitchen so i leave the boards for 2-3 days before using them.

How risky is it in general? Some YT videos praise it, some other comments like here: https://www.quora.com/What-happens-if-y ... dishwasher make it sound like a really, really bad idea (capacitors are often mentioned).

mikro wrote: 20 Feb 2022 17:19 The idea of soaking it in IPA sounds interesting, it never occurred to me that it could have a better effect when kept overnight. On the other hand, you Chris seems to be more a fan of the cleaners with proper fluids?

It's like most things, there only seems to be me who doesn't get on with IPA. Either ends in a sticky mess or ends up with that white stuff after a short time. IIRC @GadgetUK164 even complained about that in one of his videos on my falcon RAM boards :( Incidentally, the UK assembly place cleaned those and IIRC looked fine when I tested them. So it was clear I had to do something different as IPA wasn't the answer. We used to use IPA in my old job as well, but it tended to discolour and melt some plastics.

So now I have a large ultrasonic cleaner, it's large enough to fit a motherboard in! Where water which is used is for car batteries, cleanest and mineral free. I use cleaning fluids which clean and don't cause corrosion etc Then I rinse off with the clean water after they come out of the cleaner.

exxos wrote: 21 Feb 2022 10:08

mikro wrote: 20 Feb 2022 17:19 The idea of soaking it in IPA sounds interesting, it never occurred to me that it could have a better effect when kept overnight. On the other hand, you Chris seems to be more a fan of the cleaners with proper fluids?

It's like most things, there only seems to be me who doesn't get on with IPA. Either ends in a sticky mess or ends up with that white stuff after a short time. IIRC @GadgetUK164 even complained about that in one of his videos on my falcon RAM boards :( Incidentally, the UK assembly place cleaned those and IIRC looked fine when I tested them. So it was clear I had to do something different as IPA wasn't the answer. We used to use IPA in my old job as well, but it tended to discolour and melt some plastics.

So now I have a large ultrasonic cleaner, it's large enough to fit a motherboard in! Where water which is used is for car batteries, cleanest and mineral free. I use cleaning fluids which clean and don't cause corrosion etc Then I rinse off with the clean water after they come out of the cleaner.

I have a 3L Ultrasonic cleaner, which obviously won't fit a mainboard, but is good for smaller boards like I usually use. Still getting the hang of it, but definitely demineralised water is an absolute must, otherwise when you dry off the parts you find areas of scale (White marks) that are clearly not helpful.

mikro wrote: 21 Feb 2022 09:56

terriblefire wrote: 20 Feb 2022 23:14Yeah. 2 tablets actually and make sure the rinse aid is topped off.. One in the drawer and one thrown in the bottom. I've a warm kitchen so i leave the boards for 2-3 days before using them.

How risky is it in general? Some YT videos praise it, some other comments like here: https://www.quora.com/What-happens-if-y ... dishwasher make it sound like a really, really bad idea (capacitors are often mentioned).

There is always risk to the any cleaning process. If you use cotton buds with IPA you can accidentally pull corroded pads etc.
Some fluxes are corrosive as well, so not cleaning them may result in damage, leaked caps may leave corrosive residues etc.
So like everything in our lives, it is about managing risks.

mikro wrote: 21 Feb 2022 09:56

terriblefire wrote: 20 Feb 2022 23:14Yeah. 2 tablets actually and make sure the rinse aid is topped off.. One in the drawer and one thrown in the bottom. I've a warm kitchen so i leave the boards for 2-3 days before using them.

How risky is it in general? Some YT videos praise it, some other comments like here: https://www.quora.com/What-happens-if-y ... dishwasher make it sound like a really, really bad idea (capacitors are often mentioned).

I mean i only put them in there after i've replaced all the caps. If those caps arent watertight and they short you replace them and repeat.

I think most things on quora are urban myths though. Ultrasonic cleaning fluid is water based so its really no different. I mostly do Monitor Chassis in them. These ones have 19,000 volts in places. If there were issues i'd have found them by now.

TBH... nothing annoys me more than armchair electronics people. My recommendations are based on experiment and i try not to give out any advise based on just what i think would happen.. which is most certainly what most of the YouTubers are doing. Show me some videos of stuff that broke in the dishwasher (that clearly wasnt broken before it went in) and we can talk. Its likely that if things break in the dishwasher they were going to break in circuit at some point soon and needed replaced anyways.

It took some self-convincing but I've followed through @terriblefire's advice and did the dishwasher thing (very carefully). So far I have had success with the XEGS, ST and ... wait for it ... Falcon! Yes, I took quite some risk but the result is... unbelievable.

So what do I do: I use a 90 minutes program without any prewashing, i.e. one tablet is more than enough as it is used immediately at 65 degrees hot water. Just about 10 minutes before it ends I stop the program (which would be drying at this phase) and put the PCB into a big jar of distilled water. I use a soft brush to reach as many places as possible (to remove any water stains or leftovers from the tablet). Then I just put the PCB on a mildly-set radiator and wait for 2-3 hours, turning the PCB upside down every now and then. That's it.

The end result is amazing, not only all the terrible sticky gunk is gone but the look, the look! It's really like from factory. For my third attempt I threw in also the case and keyboard to see what happens, again, amazing results, I would have never been able to clean it like that.

Of course, you can't be stupid about it. All loose wires, jumpers, socketed ICs, stickers, duck tapes, hot air glue... that must either be removed or at least somehow protected otherwise the all-mighty dishwasher will eat it. :D

Frankly, I can't imagine ever doing anything else, bye bye any thoughts of buying an ultrasonic monster! :-P

Yup. They work amazingly well. You just need to let things dry out after.

I've just put 2 CRT Chassis through the dishwasher.