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Falcon SCSI write issues

Problems with your machine in general.
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exxos
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Falcon SCSI write issues

Post by exxos »

I thought I would start a new topic about this because confusing enough by itself..

Basically I have been copying files from my CF IDE to spinning rust SCSI drive.

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But it hangs.. The mouse still moves then about half an hour later it pops up...

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I copied files one at a time, and it stopped copying at a ~8.7MB file. The one which did copy before was ~ 6.5MB . So smaller than about 7MB files seem to copy fine. But larger files don't.

I suspect its a write problem to SCSI. The IDE card lights up for a few seconds then nothing happens. I copied the files off the IDE card on my PC and they copied off fine.

I think a huge clue is that if I replace the STram card with a 4MB one, the files copy just fine. I tried 2 different 14MB cards with same copying problems.

The clock patch I used in my first test was a simple noninverting buffer with a PLL to keep the SDMA clock in proper sync with the system clock.

I just changed the clock patch for a V3 type (inverting) and no change. I used delay ON and delay OFF, no change.


This is what seems to be the latest clock patch mentioned by Atari. But so far buffering and delays do not seem to have any effect.. Unless there really has to be some specific delay there which does not happen with the F04 inverter.

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It has the CPU clock in sync with the combel. But inverterts the FPU/SDMA/EXP clock.

So I reconnected the CPU clock back to combel , bypassing the inverter and made no difference either.

While the SDMA clock needs buffering for typical "pops in the audio" it doesn't seem to make any odds with my SCSI file transfer issues.

At this point I'm not sure what else to try :shrug:
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frank.lukas
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Re: Falcon SCSI write issues

Post by frank.lukas »

DFB1 with Fastram ...?
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Re: Falcon SCSI write issues

Post by exxos »

frank.lukas wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2025 8:35 pm DFB1 with Fastram ...?
Not sure what you are suggesting...

I'm using a stock Falcon.
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Re: Falcon SCSI write issues

Post by exxos »

My next test was to load EMUTOS 512K PRG on my Falcon to see if SCSI behaviour changes..

The first files seem to copy although possibly a bit slower than expected. But towards the end of the copy it said the disk is full which is strange as they should be enough room to copy the whole folder at least twice..

There was a lot of files which were corrupted file names which I could not delete. So I used EDGE to correct the problems and it found a LOT of corrupted files.. So not sure why..


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So clean directory and copy my test files on the same thing happened again :roll:

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I only just fixed the partition from the previous run.

I will fix it again and just delete the whole lot on the partition is probably pretty trashed by now. Thankfully I did a full backup of my SCSI drive like 20 years ago to my PC, so nothing lost!

So while TOS404 hangs, I don't believe it corrupted the partition. EMUTOS seems to carry on and corrupts the partition. So neither OS seem to have any idea whats going on with all this :(
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Re: Falcon SCSI write issues

Post by exxos »

I've noticed @jookie seems to have documented similar back in 2017..

https://github.com/atarijookie/ce-atari ... -272605843

Mail to Uwe:

Hello Uwe,

I'm having this issue with my device (CosmosEx) and HDDRIVER on Falcon, and I would like your opinion on this :)

TT has 4 MB ST RAM, and 16 MB TT RAM.
Falcon has 14 MB ST RAM, and no TT RAM.

The issue appears when copying large file from partition on SD card - 21 MB file.
This issue doesn't appear on ST and TT through ACSI, and it didn't appear on my TT through SCSI either, as the transfers are not that big.

The issue appears when copying that large file on Falcon, when it tries to do SCSI Read(10) command, with transfer length of 0x6e38 (28216 decimal) sectors, which is roughly 13.77 MB of data. The operation on SD card takes probably too long (as the read speed is around 1.0 MB/s, in debug mode around 0.6 MB/s), and the whole read operation times-out at around 11 seconds from its start (Falcon stops receiving data from the device).

It seems that newer TOS tries to utilize as much ST RAM as there is free for the transfers, this results in that 13.77 MB transfer, which takes long and times out. This for sure isn't the case for ST where there's not that much ST RAM, but it seems it's happening on Falcon, and maybe it would happen on TT if it had more ST RAM.

So my questions are now:

do you think this is what's happening?
does HDDRIVER 9.0 have a 10 second timeout on READ (and / or WRITE) operations?
can user set longer timeout in HDDRUTIL?
can user set maximum sector count on these operations in HDDRUTIL?
Regards,
Miro Nohaj (Jookie)
So I sent a PM to Jookie asking about if it was ever solved..

My only idea is DMA data is not going where its supposed to be going. Like Random places in STRam or something, but its only a guess.

My only current thought is trying to write a program which would load a 10MB file from SCSI directly into STram and then verify the file copied to RAM correctly.. Maybe someone can knock up a program to do that for me ?

I suppose the file had address data then it could also verify the address where it ended up in RAM matched the expected file address list.. or something along those lines. But like "own address RAM test" but the address to copy and check some from a SCSI drive.
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Re: Falcon SCSI write issues

Post by Steve »

I think it'd be prudent to rule out the SCSI drive being at fault. It's probably a good idea to get a BlueSCSI v2 for testing. You can buy it from: https://shop.flamelily.co.uk/ either in kit form or fully assembled. I've used them on multiple Falcons & I refurbished a music professional's Falcon who uses Cubase audio consistently with the bluescsi, no problems. You'd need to get the V2 Pico 'Internal' version. It's easy to use, format the sd card to exfat, copy a completely blank image file of suitable size (something like 500mb) and name it suitably ie; 'HD30 Falcon.hda' (for scsi ID 3, bus 0) Then the Atari see's that image file as a 500mb HDD, you then just partition it as you require.

You could even put two image files on the sd card, something like 'HD30 Falcon1.hda' and 'HD40 Falcon2.hda' and have two 500mb drives on the SCSI bus, then you could test copying between the two SCSI drives without having to use IDE for the copy operations (which would be an interesting test in itself for troubleshooting)
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Re: Falcon SCSI write issues

Post by exxos »

Steve wrote: Mon Sep 22, 2025 8:41 am I think it'd be prudent to rule out the SCSI drive being at fault.
Yes but I don't see the relation why using a 4MB STRAM card works fine. It doesn't indicate a drive problem if I can copy fine that way.
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Re: Falcon SCSI write issues

Post by Steve »

Oh yeah true ... that certainly is the primary issue. Although Jookie seemed to only report these issues with HD driver, I wonder if he tried EmuTOS too. Let's see what he says. It's strange though, there are so many Falcon's out there with 14mb without issues on scsi, I wonder what could cause this. I wonder if the Clab extra capacitor grounding mod helps with this. viewtopic.php?p=90443
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Re: Falcon SCSI write issues

Post by exxos »

Jookie thinks there's a 4mb SCSI transfer limit. I need to think of a test. Maybe I can write a program in basic to create some test files and then read them into ram.. Assume read and write would fail..

EDIT
Jookie has a test program, he will patch it for me over the next few days. He says it doesn't use a driver and sounds like it's sending raw SCSI commands to test data transfer..
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Re: Falcon SCSI write issues

Post by kohli79 »

Have you tried running Uwe's SCSI test program? ;)
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