You will not be able to post if you are still using Microsoft email addresses such as Hotmail etc
See here for more information viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7296
BOOKMARK THIS PAGE !
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk:8085/IP_CHECK/
You can unban yourself if needed. It also sends me reports to investigate the ban.
DO NOT USE MOBILE / CGNAT DEVICES WHERE THE IP CHANGES CONSTANTLY!
At this time, it is unfortunately not possible to whitelist users when your IP changes constantly.
You may inadvertently get banned because a previous attack may have used the IP you are now on.
So I suggest people only use fixed IP address devices until I can think of a solution for this problem!

Mac Classic - will it ever run again!!

Any 680x0 based information, repairs, images, upgrades and other cool stuff that is not Atari and Amiga based but based on the Motorola 68K range of processors
User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 14719
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 19:40
Location: Essex

Re: Mac Classic - will it ever run again!!

Post by rubber_jonnie »

Tomswork wrote: 21 Dec 2021 18:41 Could some of the diodes or resistors be breaking down ?

Tom
It's possible, but I still think it's a capacitor problem. I have replaced the main diode in the 5v circuit BTW.

I sat and monitored the 5v rail on a cold boot, having sat for some time, so it didn't boot right away.

The 5v rail starts about 4.8v and slowly but surely climbs to 5.1-5.2v when it bongs and boots up. Prior to that it sits with garbage on the screen. As soon as I can test again, I will monitor 12v at the same time.

I'll use 2 multimeters and video what happens.

The other reason I think it's a capacitor somewhere it that it takes sometime to get back to the stage where it won't boot, suggesting something is discharging.

As exxos suggested, I think I need to have a look at the values at suggested test points on the schematic, I just need to mark the points on the bottom of the analog board as it's too difficult to measure on the component side with the machine assembled.

Back to the schematic too, see if I can figure out why the 5v circuit, which is pretty simple, would take time to deliver a working voltage.
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 28211
Joined: 16 Aug 2017 23:19
Location: UK

Re: Mac Classic - will it ever run again!!

Post by exxos »

It's tricky to diagnose when you can't simply have it "on the bench" :( sounds like you replaced most of the stuff in the secondary side already. The next logical step is to trace back the feedback line as mentioned earlier.

If that feedback voltages stable and does not change but the output voltage does.. There is not exactly much left in the circuit other than the Opto itself. Those things have bonkers specifications when new, never mind when they are years old.
User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 14719
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 19:40
Location: Essex

Re: Mac Classic - will it ever run again!!

Post by rubber_jonnie »

exxos wrote: 21 Dec 2021 19:11 Is tricky to diagnose when you can't simply have it "on the bench" :( sounds like you replace most of the stuff in the secondary side already. The next logical step is to trace back the feedback line as mentioned earlier.

If that feedback voltages stable and does not change for the output voltage does. There is not exactly much left in the circuit other than the Opto itself. Those things have bonkers specifications when new, never mind when they are years old.
Yeah, it's not simple to work on, however I'm not going to let that stop me!! STs, BBCs, A8s etc are so much easier without the internal PSU that includes all the CRT stuff.

I have just been looking at the datasheets for the opto (CNY17) and the TDA4605. The latter seems to be for flyback control, and given I have a stable image during boot I'm thinking it's ok. I think the opto may also be part of that circuit too so not related, BUT I'm just printing out the full schematics as looking at half a page at a time on my laptop is driving me mad and I could be wrong!!
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 28211
Joined: 16 Aug 2017 23:19
Location: UK

Re: Mac Classic - will it ever run again!!

Post by exxos »

rubber_jonnie wrote: 21 Dec 2021 20:06 I have just been looking at the datasheets for the opto (CNY17) and the TDA4605. The latter seems to be for flyback control, and given I have a stable image during boot I'm thinking it's ok. I think the opto may also be part of that circuit too so not related, BUT I'm just printing out the full schematics as looking at half a page at a time on my laptop is driving me mad and I could be wrong!!
Just sanity checking this here, that transformer on the schematic is that actually a switch mode transformer or the actual flyback transformer ?
User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 14719
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 19:40
Location: Essex

Re: Mac Classic - will it ever run again!!

Post by rubber_jonnie »

exxos wrote: 21 Dec 2021 20:14
rubber_jonnie wrote: 21 Dec 2021 20:06 I have just been looking at the datasheets for the opto (CNY17) and the TDA4605. The latter seems to be for flyback control, and given I have a stable image during boot I'm thinking it's ok. I think the opto may also be part of that circuit too so not related, BUT I'm just printing out the full schematics as looking at half a page at a time on my laptop is driving me mad and I could be wrong!!
Just sanity checking this here, that transformer on the schematic is that actually a switch mode transformer or the actual flyback transformer ?
That is a very good question, and one of the reasons I just printed out the schematics. I need to try and piece it all together and figure out if that is the flyback or not. The schematics are basically not great, so trying to untangle it, especially as I am not great with power supplies.

More head scratching to be done, but I'm used to that. I'll hopefully check both 5v and 12v rails on a bad power on shortly, see if the startup is different on each.
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
Tomswork
Posts: 776
Joined: 22 Nov 2019 22:05

Re: Mac Classic - will it ever run again!!

Post by Tomswork »

@rubber_jonnie

This is a good resource

https://recapamac.com.au/macintosh-classic-analog/

He has some videos on these board repairs

Tom
User avatar
stephen_usher
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 7354
Joined: 13 Nov 2017 19:19
Location: Oxford, UK.

Re: Mac Classic - will it ever run again!!

Post by stephen_usher »

Instead of two multimeters you could use your oscilloscope's two channels. That would allow you to see any ripple or noise too.
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 14719
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 19:40
Location: Essex

Re: Mac Classic - will it ever run again!!

Post by rubber_jonnie »

Tomswork wrote: 21 Dec 2021 21:18 @rubber_jonnie

This is a good resource

https://recapamac.com.au/macintosh-classic-analog/

He has some videos on these board repairs

Tom
Cool thanks for that.
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 14719
Joined: 17 Aug 2017 19:40
Location: Essex

Re: Mac Classic - will it ever run again!!

Post by rubber_jonnie »

stephen_usher wrote: 21 Dec 2021 21:22 Instead of two multimeters you could use your oscilloscope's two channels. That would allow you to see any ripple or noise too.
Good thought.
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
User avatar
stephen_usher
Site sponsor
Site sponsor
Posts: 7354
Joined: 13 Nov 2017 19:19
Location: Oxford, UK.

Re: Mac Classic - will it ever run again!!

Post by stephen_usher »

Just a mo... Are those schematics for the international 220V version or the USA one, which is very different?

I have a feeling that they're the US version you know.
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.

Return to “OTHER 680x0”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CCBot and 3 guests