exxos blog - random goings on

Blogs & guides and tales of woo by forum members.
User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10878
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:40 pm
Location: Essex
Contact:

Re: exxos blog - random goings on

Post by rubber_jonnie »

Ok, so here's what I did.

Instead of putting the folder containing the folders/sub folders and files in the root of C:, I just dropped all 26 folders, their 100 sub folders and 10 files into the root of C:

So 26 folders in the root of C: containing all the same subfolders and files as before, just one folder level up.

I then selected all 26 folders and dragged them into the trash. They all deleted no problem, and they were simply one folder level up.

I really think you're hitting some sort of path limit with TOS 2.06. Quite what it is I don't know.

I don't have NVDI installed so I can't test that unfortunately.
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 24083
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: exxos blog - random goings on

Post by exxos »

@rubber_jonnie interesting. It backs onto EMUTOS saying the folder path is to deep but I've not hit that problem again.

I know it's 14 folders deep. But I don't think I'm hitting that. Even so, TOS normally moans.

I can only think it's overflowing something corrupting RAM somewhere. But no idea how to figure that out either .

I found TOS1.62 seems to work but no idea what the differences are other than updated AES etc.

Also, have you tried turning the blitter off as it tends to work then..

Might be a clue http://toshyp.atari.org/en/005002.html but not sure on path_max with my test files offhand. Don't think I'm getting anywhere near that limit.
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10878
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:40 pm
Location: Essex
Contact:

Re: exxos blog - random goings on

Post by rubber_jonnie »

exxos wrote: Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:26 pm @rubber_jonnie interesting. It backs onto EMUTOS saying the folder path is to deep but I've not hit that problem again.

I know it's 14 folders deep. But I don't think I'm hitting that. Even so, TOS normally moans.

I can only think it's overflowing something corrupting RAM somewhere. But no idea how to figure that out either .

I found TOS1.62 seems to work but no idea what the differences are other than updated AES etc.

Also, have you tried turning the blitter off as it tends to work then..

Might be a clue http://toshyp.atari.org/en/005002.html but not sure on path_max with my test files offhand. Don't think I'm getting anywhere near that limit.
Yeah, feels like RAM corruption or a memory leak of some sort. I'd have to pull out one of my dual TOS STEs to check 1.62, but could it simply be that 1.62 starts with the Blitter disabled by default and 2.06 has it enabled?
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 24083
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: exxos blog - random goings on

Post by exxos »

rubber_jonnie wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 8:01 am Yeah, feels like RAM corruption or a memory leak of some sort. I'd have to pull out one of my dual TOS STEs to check 1.62, but could it simply be that 1.62 starts with the Blitter disabled by default and 2.06 has it enabled?
It may do. But I always check it's enabled in the desktop menu anyway. Would help if you can confirm 1.62 works with blitter.

206 is supposed to be a more fixed and mature TOS as well. So if 162 works, then something is broken in TOS or it's just a fluke it works.

Either way. If you can confirm turning the blitter off works in 206 then t would help. I'm out of ideas and nothing left to try. If no blitter works for you, then my conclusion would end up being to never use the blitter :roll:
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
dad664npc
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:32 pm
Location: South East

Re: exxos blog - random goings on

Post by dad664npc »

I installed NVDI this morning and again, deletion works okay with and without blitter - the only oddity I am seeing is the "can not delete directory", "can not delete file A.." every 1000 files
ATARI STfm, STe, Mega ST, TT, Falcon
Amstrad CPC464, CPC6128
PiStorm dev - https://github.com/gotaproblem/pistorm-atari
Pico HDC - https://bbansolutions.co.uk
User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 24083
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: exxos blog - random goings on

Post by exxos »

dad664npc wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:08 am I installed NVDI this morning and again, deletion works okay with and without blitter - the only oddity I am seeing is the "can not delete directory", "can not delete file A.." every 1000 files
Weird. Why does your machine behave slightly different to mine and @rubber_jonnie's :shrug:
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
dad664npc
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:32 pm
Location: South East

Re: exxos blog - random goings on

Post by dad664npc »

LOL - If we knew the answer to that, then all would be well in the world.
Is this issue STe/MSTe only? Do you want me to power up my STFM?
ATARI STfm, STe, Mega ST, TT, Falcon
Amstrad CPC464, CPC6128
PiStorm dev - https://github.com/gotaproblem/pistorm-atari
Pico HDC - https://bbansolutions.co.uk
User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 24083
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: exxos blog - random goings on

Post by exxos »

dad664npc wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:32 am LOL - If we knew the answer to that, then all would be well in the world.
Is this issue STe/MSTe only? Do you want me to power up my STFM?
It does the same on my H5 which is essentially a STF. I'm runing 206 on it.

But its like the fault keeps moving all the time. I would only fail with the IMP blitter originally. Then it failed with the National one. I deleted my test file several times with the blitter OFF, and it worked. Turned it on, tested several more times, crashed every time. All this on my STE. Now the H5 behaves differently again :pullhair: :headbang: :cussing:

ahh FFS!

I just turned off the blitter on my H5 and it crashed. Tried it again same problem. :WTF:

I will remove the blitter and try again...Still crashed. So rules out the blitter at least now then.
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
User avatar
rubber_jonnie
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10878
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:40 pm
Location: Essex
Contact:

Re: exxos blog - random goings on

Post by rubber_jonnie »

I'll test with 1.62 as soon as I can but I'm in the office today so it won't be quick.

Talking with my friendly dev here and we think it's a path length issue.

Just to be clear, I've lost track of this, why is it an issue?
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
User avatar
exxos
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 24083
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: exxos blog - random goings on

Post by exxos »

rubber_jonnie wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:57 am I'll test with 1.62 as soon as I can but I'm in the office today so it won't be quick.

Talking with my friendly dev here and we think it's a path length issue.

Just to be clear, I've lost track of this, why is it an issue?
Something is unstable deleting files. It's a bit of a flaw in something. There could be other issues which are causing drive issues which we don't know about. Or people blaming the DMA chip when this is a separate issue. In any case, I wouldn't trust using a drive where there is some bizzare random chance of losing data or corrupting it.

Also don't forget I copied files from folder to folder on the STE itself in the beginning. If it is a path issue, why doesn't it show the same problems as when deleting. TOS would normally thow up a error in that case about being unable to access files to far down the directory tree. PP driver also seems to not have the problem but TOS does still show corrupted folder names while deleting. It doesn't seem to crash like when using HD11 .

Whatever the issue is, hardware or software, really needs to be understood. If it's a bug after TOS1.62 then I'll have to caution people using TOS206 as there's a flaw in it somewhere relating to DMA devices. As I'm selling harddrives now, I don't want people blaming the drive for corruption etc when it could be DMA hardware related or TOS related.

I haven't tried TOS104 yet. I'll do tests tomorrow on my H5. I think the next step is to see if there is any relation to TOS versions and issues.

Overall it's either bad sector data due to a hardware issue on all STs. Or some sort of ram corruption which only seems to show when deleting files and not copying.

It's kinda like the FAT is corrupted but only with some folder names. It would have to lead TOS to crash but why. And why do the files and folders delete fine if the FAT is corrupted. Could be TOS doesn't have enough ram to hold the FAT . I'll see if I can see any ram allocation relating to that tomorrow. But again, I deleted 8,000 folders fine.. I can copy 100MB of stuff just fine..
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
Post Reply

Return to “MEMBER BLOGS”