Falcon clock patch V4 series

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exxos
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Re: Falcon clock patch V4 series

Post by exxos »

Swissfalcon wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:42 pm It's a very interesting thread. May I ask what would be the best clock patch to use with a untouched Falcon (newer modified, nothing soldered/patched) that has the Atari first attempt to patch (C208 removed on the other side of PCB and R221short-circuited) and a CT60e? Thanks for your help and for what you do for the community!
The V4 is the last version which all known fixes. I did a huge write up on it ages ago. https://exxosforum.co.uk/atari/last/fal ... m#CP2022RS
There is not many out in the wild currently though currently.

The V2/V3 will likely work for the majority of people and is well tested. But again, the V4 fixes problems other versions did not.

Realistically more people need to try the V4 and be prepared to do some minor alterations because it is very difficult to build a "one size fits all" design with so many falcons have various amounts of clock related issues. leonk does have some unexpected results but it is unknown the reason for that. It is certainly performing better than the V2/V3, but still not operating exactly as intended .

Symptoms he shows are like he is using X1 probe because of the sinewave and lower voltages. But he says he is on X100 now and exactly the same. So his machine is a unknown currently as to why his signals look the way they do. But if its a measurement error of some kind then the V2/V3 would also show the same problems. Unfortunately until more people tried and report back their results are willing to do a little bit of work, it would be impossible to make any alterations or improvements in the future.

Mostly the V4 was verified in my machine and @Steve's machine and both machines perform as expected. I do not know of anyone else currently has fitted a V4. The V4 works with the DFB1X, so no reason really why it wouldn't work with the CT60 either. I had my CT60 running with the V2 patch originally.
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Re: Falcon clock patch V4 series

Post by leonk »

@exxos a couple pages back in this thread, Steve did post his SDMA measurements. They look a lot more like mine than yours (with the narrow sine wave tops). Here it is again (this is Steve's V4 SDMA capture):
V4sdma.jpg
V4sdma.jpg (22.73 KiB) Viewed 262 times
And here is mine:
IMG_7634.JPG
IMG_7634.JPG (329.05 KiB) Viewed 262 times
Apart from frequency (I have an NTSC unit) they look very similar. If anything, my Vpp is actually higher by 0.5V. The narrow sine waves were also there using Atari's fix on this Falcon (I posted images a few pages back) So I don't believe I've done anything to change it (apart from cleaning it up - making the curve look smoother)
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Re: Falcon clock patch V4 series

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leonk wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:15 pm The narrow sine waves were also there using Atari's fix on this Falcon (I posted images a few pages back) So I don't believe I've done anything to change it (apart from cleaning it up - making the curve look smoother)
If the Atari one looks the same then it's likely correct as that didn't have any added capacitance anyway.
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Re: Falcon clock patch V4 series

Post by Swissfalcon »

ok, thanks for the reply.

My symptoms are the following:

- Falcamp crash after some minutes (when I'm lucky after one or two hours) and freeze the machine, and in all Oses (MINT and TOS) and both CPU (030 and 060)
. joy demo don't work most of the time in 030 mode

But the SDMA Atari test is always green after hours of testing and I hear no crack sound in the SDMA sound test.

I'm not sure if the clock patch can help in my case, but I read somewhere that the patch is in fact mandatory.

Reading what you explain, I think that my best option is with the V2 then...
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Re: Falcon clock patch V4 series

Post by exxos »

Swissfalcon wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:54 pm - Falcamp crash after some minutes (when I'm lucky after one or two hours) and freeze the machine, and in all Oses (MINT and TOS) and both CPU (030 and 060)
. joy demo don't work most of the time in 030 mode
I'm not that familiar with that unless someone else knows..
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viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
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Re: Falcon clock patch V4 series

Post by exxos »

leonk wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:15 pm @exxos a couple pages back in this thread, Steve did post his SDMA measurements. They look a lot more like mine than yours (with the narrow sine wave tops). Here it is again (this is Steve's V4 SDMA capture):
I thought @Steves looked like mine, but this was 2 years ago now...

I just connected my Falcon as it has the new V4..


X10 probe.

x10.JPG
x10.JPG (248.57 KiB) Viewed 250 times


X1 probe.

x1.JPG
x1.JPG (287.98 KiB) Viewed 250 times
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Re: Falcon clock patch V4 series

Post by leonk »

I'm using a Rigol original probe, it's in 10X mode; both the switch on the probe and on the channel configuration on the oscilloscope. They both show me the exact same plot. In your 1X image, something doesn't look right. Bottom left corner says that every division is 10V, so your clock is 40Vpp !?! Do you have the oscilloscope set to 10X but the probe to 1X?
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Re: Falcon clock patch V4 series

Post by exxos »

The images were to show the waveform difference and voltages are not important at this point.

If you don't see any difference in signal between X1 and X10 then I assume there is something wrong with you scope and/or probe calibration or the probes are damaged or bad. There used to be like 10mhz probes years ago. But even cheap china ones tend to be 100mhz these days. Or you have a bandwidth limit set on your scope or something. So I'm afraid I'm don't know why your getting those results.

Maybe @Badwolf can scope his falcons sdma clock (on the sdma pin itself) next time he has his falcon connected up to see what he gets on X1 and X10.
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Re: Falcon clock patch V4 series

Post by Steve »

jwd wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:46 am What I will say is that even though the phantom cleaned it up (SDMA) nicely there was still some 'artefacts' present in the signal (compared to the super clean output from the powerup2) and if I wanted to put a further speeder (DBFX or Nemesis etc.) then I would probably need a cleaner signal to SDMA as it would all be put under tighter tolerances and therefore I will probably need (in my case) the V4 patch.
Please see my comments in this post: viewtopic.php?p=115904#p115904
V4 is not suitable for bus boosted Falcons, I've extensively tested it. But it is possibly the best for non-bus boosted Falcons. If there was another clockpatch for you to try on bus-boost, it would be the V2 (Because the V2 includes the Phantom-like delay buffer, V4 does not)
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Re: Falcon clock patch V4 series

Post by Steve »

Swissfalcon wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:54 pm joy demo don't work most of the time in 030 mode
Joy demo is famous for being the 'clock patch test' demo, it almost certainly fails on any Falcon with a not-so-good clock patch. If your Falcon is not bus boosted, I recommend V4. Otherwise V2. Please see my explanations in this post: viewtopic.php?p=115904#p115904
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