New project: Atari MB in ATX format

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tzok
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Re: New project: Atari MB in ATX format

Post by tzok »

bfollowell wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:52 pm Sooooo, kind of like MyTek's Atari 1088XEL design for the 8-bits?
More like X_Angel's own Atari ITX (8-bit) project, which he did years ago:

2021-06-01 11.01.53.jpg
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bfollowell
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Re: New project: Atari MB in ATX format

Post by bfollowell »

You're probably right.

MyTek's design incorporates many of the upgrades for the 8-bit line, whereas, with the exception of dual Pokeys, I think X_Angel's design is pretty much a stock 8-bit redesign.

From the looks of things, this ST in ATX format looks similar; not a lot of upgrades, just a motherboard redesign.

Personally, I'd be more interested if it were an STe in ATX format, but it's still a pretty cool project. I look forward to seeing how it progresses and where it goes.
8-bit - 800XL - 1050 w/Happy Mod - XF551 - SIO2PCUSB - Ultimate Cart - an assembled, but not quite 100% working  1088XEL & CF3 Dual, "new" filthy 600XL & 800XL winter repair & restoration projects, 400 restoration project
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x_angel
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Re: New project: Atari MB in ATX format

Post by x_angel »

Hello to everyone :)

I wouldn't say Atari ITX is stock. You have stereo Pokey, built-in SIO2SD, AKI interface and the board is designed for simple memory upgrade (130XE or 320k or 1MB). I will upload expansion board files on my site.

Also Atari ST ATX has some upgrades: Eiffel interface, 4MB memory, TOS switch, IDE interface, STGA1040 interface and DMA fix (newest version of mobo).
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Cyprian
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Re: New project: Atari MB in ATX format

Post by Cyprian »

bfollowell wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:38 pm Personally, I'd be more interested if it were an STe in ATX format,
I second that idea. Would be cool to have a new motherboard for the STE, and ATX with the ISA slot sounds cool.
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sporniket
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Re: New project: Atari MB in ATX format

Post by sporniket »

Cyprian wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:26 am
bfollowell wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:38 pm Personally, I'd be more interested if it were an STe in ATX format,
I second that idea. Would be cool to have a new motherboard for the STE, and ATX with the ISA slot sounds cool.
I believe that ATX is a little bit too tight for the STe for placing components, especially when keeping the pal/ntsc encoder circuit, if the goal is to salvage a unit that have dead motherboard but still good components. And if one talks about redesign, I would add a DIP-64 socket to plug extensions.

With ditching the pal/ntsc encoder, replacing passive with hand-solderable cms (1206) and keeping other original component, I believe that it may be possible to reach B4-sized motherboard.

Anyway, anybody can start from my conversion of the STe motherboard into Kicad (shameless self promotion :twisted: ), clear the pcb file and start designing.

edit: don't forget to apply the mandatory fixes !! :D
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Badwolf
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Re: New project: Atari MB in ATX format

Post by Badwolf »

sporniket wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:49 am I believe that ATX is a little bit too tight for the STe for placing components
How much stuff could be, in theory, offloaded to an ISA format card to give more working space?

Would be quite amusing to have an STE with the card in and and STM with it out. :lol:

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sporniket
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Re: New project: Atari MB in ATX format

Post by sporniket »

Badwolf wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:16 am
sporniket wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:49 am I believe that ATX is a little bit too tight for the STe for placing components
How much stuff could be, in theory, offloaded to an ISA format card to give more working space?

Would be quite amusing to have an STE with the card in and and STM with it out. :lol:

BW
Tough question, the STe does not reuse the chipset of the ST. At one point I had theorized a "ReST(e) In Pieces" (pun obviously intended :twisted: ) with a core made of the DIP64 port + MCU + Shifter, DMA, RAM and some other pieces, the rest being pluggable extension. I had drafted the following diagram, with the green boxes being double rows of pin headers :

Capture d’écran du 2022-08-03 18-20-58-optim.png
Capture d’écran du 2022-08-03 18-20-58-optim.png (59.08 KiB) Viewed 1204 times

But there was no intention to implement a standard like ISA. Each interface would have the relevant part of databus (full width, lower byte, upper byte), relevant address lines and other control signal. The YM2149 is troubling because it is used for sound generation and its set of GPIO is used to implement the parallel port.

Going back to the ATX form factor, it could be more reachable by borrowing some space-saving ideas implemented on the H5 : replace the 4 SIMM32 by one SIMM-72, replace the RS-232 circuitry (lots of chips) for a modern all-in-one package chip. Use a DB9 instead of DB25 for the RS-232 port. Going down to 0805 size for passives, with a compact placement (forget references neatly placed beside each component on the silkscreen). Use plcc ROMS (with the benefit of having dual TOS). For standard 74xxx, 555/556 etc, use cms packages.
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exxos
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Re: New project: Atari MB in ATX format

Post by exxos »

If you're going the STE route, the "source" of chips is even worse than the ST. You're at FPGA cores basically. Then by the time you bolted on various addons.. You're at the suska anyway.

We are moving to the STE FPGA cores for the H5. But we are building addons from the ground up as most ST addons are a bit hacky and tend to not work right. Take netusbee or PP IDE interface etc. All have many known issues / bugs. It's why we built TRUDIE,

Anyway. Wasn't trying to derail :)
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viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
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Cyprian
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Re: New project: Atari MB in ATX format

Post by Cyprian »

exxos wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:21 pm If you're going the STE route, the "source" of chips is even worse than the ST.
they should be available in B&C and Best Electronics
Lynx I / Mega ST 1 / 7800 / Portfolio / Lynx II / Jaguar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
DDD HDD / AT Speed C16 / TF536 / SDrive / PAK68/3 / Lynx Multi Card / LDW Super 2000 / XCA12 / SkunkBoard / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
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