Conversely, with the high energy barrier to annoying your parents it would have stopped a lot of people experimenting.
Being able to quickly and easily make annoying noises and draw things on the screen would be a hook to go further and then learn assembly language to make your programs run faster. c.f. the ZX Spectrum and BBC Micro.
I also did a Rubber Jonnie and bought another computer
- stephen_usher
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Re: I also did a Rubber Jonnie and bought another computer
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
- mrbombermillzy
- Posts: 1468
- Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:37 pm
Re: I also did a Rubber Jonnie and bought another computer
Of course, the BBC Micro had a lovely BASIC. But if you had a C64 and no money for any enhancements (a situation I found myself in at 13 ) you would, I guess, pick the better option; ASM. i.e. if both were going to be hard work to learn, go for the language with the better results.stephen_usher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:38 am Conversely, with the high energy barrier to annoying your parents it would have stopped a lot of people experimenting.
Being able to quickly and easily make annoying noises and draw things on the screen would be a hook to go further and then learn assembly language to make your programs run faster. c.f. the ZX Spectrum and BBC Micro.
I believe asm on a 6510 8 bit CPU is a bit easier/simpler (even though maybe not as elegant) than the later 68k architecture to learn...especially if you had that book I mentioned earlier.
But I do see your point. I guess we just had different circumstances. However much I would have liked the BBC, I think the retail price was (IIRC) ~£500+ back in 84-85; far beyond anything I would have been allowed at that time, being just starting secondary school. Plus I was too naiive at the time to try to play the 'its for education' card!
Re: I also did a Rubber Jonnie and bought another computer
I think although on the face of things this was a negative, it probably was a positive as it forced so many people into learning 6502 assembly/ML.stephen_usher wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:10 pm My goodness. Isn't C64 BASIC rudimentary?
No sound commands and no line drawing commands. You have to manually POKE stuff into memory just to do basic stuff. How did they manage to get away with that and selling so many? I guess no-one programmed in BASIC.
Just me own perspective anyhow.
- stephen_usher
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Re: I also did a Rubber Jonnie and bought another computer
Oh, back in the early/mid 80s I could never have afforded a Beeb. But the ZX Spectrum, although not as loud, could quickly and easily be made to draw things and make sounds in an intuitive way. The push to go further with assembly was, of course, the speed of BASIC. This was helped by having the Z80 mnemonics and values at the back of the manual along with the memory map etc. which tantalised and showed there was something more.
There was such a lower energy barrier to entry level programming on the speccy than the C64 that it allowed people to get a taster for programming as they could do "interesting" things easily, if slowly. Not having native basic graphics and sound commands, even though the POKEs are documented in the manual, seems short signed.
Remember, Commodore UK was counting upon the C64 as a Spectrum killer in late 82, after they'd abandoned the VIC=30 and VIC=10. They had to rapidly reduce the price of the C64 in the UK to just get traction.
The argument that making things hard pushed people to program in assembler is only partially true. It probably put off some people who would have been truly talented because it just seemed to steep a mountain to climb at the time. Those who did continue on often have survivors' bias as no-one saw those who gave up prematurely.
There was such a lower energy barrier to entry level programming on the speccy than the C64 that it allowed people to get a taster for programming as they could do "interesting" things easily, if slowly. Not having native basic graphics and sound commands, even though the POKEs are documented in the manual, seems short signed.
Remember, Commodore UK was counting upon the C64 as a Spectrum killer in late 82, after they'd abandoned the VIC=30 and VIC=10. They had to rapidly reduce the price of the C64 in the UK to just get traction.
The argument that making things hard pushed people to program in assembler is only partially true. It probably put off some people who would have been truly talented because it just seemed to steep a mountain to climb at the time. Those who did continue on often have survivors' bias as no-one saw those who gave up prematurely.
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
- stephen_usher
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- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:19 pm
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Re: I also did a Rubber Jonnie and bought another computer
My Kung-Fu Flash has arrived... I picked the random colour case and no USB options from TFW8b.com, so I wonder what colour I got...
And it's green!
And it's green!
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
- rubber_jonnie
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Re: I also did a Rubber Jonnie and bought another computer
Nice!!!stephen_usher wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:21 pm My Kung-Fu Flash has arrived... I picked the random colour case and no USB options from TFW8b.com, so I wonder what colour I got...
And it's green!
We of course need a full demonstration and overview with pictures
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
- stephen_usher
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- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:19 pm
- Location: Oxford, UK.
- Contact:
Re: I also did a Rubber Jonnie and bought another computer
Hehe. OK. I'll have to download some cart images (and possibly D64s). The supplied (16GB!) SD card is empty.
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
- rubber_jonnie
- Site Admin
- Posts: 10625
- Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:40 pm
- Location: Essex
- Contact:
Re: I also did a Rubber Jonnie and bought another computer
Collector of many retro things!
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
800XL and 65XE both with Ultimate1MB,VBXL/XE & PokeyMax, SIDE3, SDrive Max, 2x 1010 cassette, 2x 1050 one with Happy mod, 3x 2600 Jr, 7800 and Lynx II
Approx 20 STs, including a 520 STM, 520 STFMs, 3x Mega ST, MSTE & 2x 32 Mhz boosted STEs
Plus the rest, totalling around 50 machines including a QL, 3x BBC Model B, Electron, Spectrums, ZX81 etc...
Re: I also did a Rubber Jonnie and bought another computer
I'll PM you a useful link @stephen_usher
If it ain't broke, test it to Destruction.
- stephen_usher
- Posts: 5668
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:19 pm
- Location: Oxford, UK.
- Contact:
Re: I also did a Rubber Jonnie and bought another computer
Intro retro computers since before they were retro...
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.
ZX81->Spectrum->Memotech MTX->Sinclair QL->520STM->BBC Micro->TT030->PCs & Sun Workstations.
Added code to the MiNT kernel (still there the last time I checked) + put together MiNTOS.
Collection now with added Macs, Amigas, Suns and Acorns.