ATARI Chip-Tune Music for 400, 800XL, 1040STe, 130Xe

[nerotik]

I would like to start this topic by saying that I am coming back to Atari after 22 years away. I have been writing music (hip hop mainly), amongst other compositions, but I have always wanted to compose music for games. Hence why I am starting with Atari the first computer I had as a child was an Atari 400. & the pokey chip sound is where I will begin my journey. Now in saying that I know the 400 isn't going to be proficient, which is why I am trying to find a 800XL PAL but it is hard to get in my country, as is the 1040STe, the 130Xe is a little bit easier to find. The Atari 400 is on it's way as I am typing this. I will be looking to get Atari line in this order:- 800XL, 1040STe, 130Xe.With both the last 2 I would like to focus on after writting for the 8 bit & track with Cubase perhaps. Now I don't want to use a tracker if possible I have been using on PC FL Studio/Reason/Cubase/Pro Tools/EPS 16+/Drum Machines etc. So I was hoping that perhaps I can do this using MIDI. I was instructed to seek out the Chip-Tune GOD Yerzmyey ... So please any information advice etc would be great. A MIDI interface device would be good if I can get one like the WIZZTRONICS MIDI MAX or the likes. Any help is welcomed. Thanks guys. Regards Nerotik

[yerzmyey]

(Haha, thx dude ).


Well, is anybody out there to help?

I will start them, if the rest of the guys are too shy (hehe).
If You want to make chiptune music on Atari machines and don't want to use tracker, then it might be a really tricky thing.
All reasonable chiptune progs (using Atari's soundchip) are trackers actually.
As far as I know, two of them have also a MIDI support - maxYMizer and MusicMon.

Here You can find some set of chiptune editors for ST/e/Falcon series:
http://dhs.nu/files.php?t=chipeditor
As You can notice, most of them are trackers.
Still, You might pay attention to "Sound Chip Synth" that is described:
"This is not a music editor as the others here, but is a midi synthesizer using the YM2149-chip, something alot of people have asked for. You can control all three channels over MIDI. It needs a screenmode of 640x400 pixels or more in any colour depth (ST-HIGH is fine). Check the screenshot for ST-HIGH/TT-MID dumps of the program.
Machines: ST/STe/TT/Falcon"
So You could use MIDI and chiptune sound but You'd have to use another machine (possibly another Atari ST/e/Falcon?) as a MIDI sequencer. Seems like this, anyway.

And here is a set of digital editors for ST/e/Falcon:
http://dhs.nu/files.php?t=digieditor
(plus ACE Tracker that is actually a virtual analogue synthesizer).





As for chiptune-editors on atari XL/XE, they are probably in 95% trackers too (especially that for MIDI with XL/XE series You supposedly need a special interface).
Seems like the most popular synthetic editors are
Theta Music Composer:
http://grayscale.scene.pl/download/thetamc.zip
and
Music Pro Tracker
http://grayscale.scene.pl/download/mpt24s.zip
(this one can play with 2 channels of synths and 2 channels of samples).

There is also a cross-platform editor - Raster Music Tracker - that allows You to create POKEY music on PC:
http://raster.infos.cz/atari/rmt/rmt.htm
(songs can be exported to real Atari XL/XE to record from real hardware).

And here is some small article I wrote for people interested in creating digital music on XL/XE (too few of such people) -
http://www.atarimusic.net/forum/topic?f=124&t=113


OK, guys, who else can help da man? Especially about "MIDI+chiptunes" phenomenon?

[nerotik]

Thanks heaps for that it was helpful. I will also be moving into using c64/c128 & Amiga trackers as well, as I can see this is the only real feasible option. Now that being said. I need a MIDI box to connect to my Atari 400/800/800XL?? Any ideas for this one man. I want something that's not too over the top expensive. Thanks again Yerz you are the man! I thank you. If you would like to help guide me through this it would be great as I want to write chiptune music for old game systems in my spare time.

If you could please get back to me, you can always PM me & we can email from there if you would like. Thanks Yerz. Shed some more light on the subject for me Wizztronics MidiMax was basically what I need for the 400/800 system * most likely the XL system too....??

[yerzmyey]

No problem dude.

Well, my address is yerzmyey AT interia.pl
but actually I always hope that conversation on this forum can help also other people, You know.

As for the MIDI work with XL/XE series.

I asked people on the best Atari (general) forum - AA - and the guyz gave me a most interesting link.
It is in Polish (of course, we're talkin'bout XL/XE) but here is a link from GoogleTranslate:
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... ml&act=url

Except the scheme of MIDI interface, there is also a MIDI sequencer on the site.
Exact link (with GoogleTranslate from Czech language) -
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... atari3.htm

The program: http://raster.infos.cz/atari/mpe2v3.zip

Another MIDI sequencer for XL/XE:
http://ixkuczek.republika.pl/seq/seq.zip

MidiRec 1.2:
http://ixkuczek.republika.pl/ix_rec/midirec.zip




MIDIRECORDER



MIDI Sequencer 1.15







Midi-Player



RASTER - MIDI Pattern Editor








Seems like that's all I have about MIDI on XL/XE.
Greetzzzzzz,
Y

[mos6502]

Thanks heaps for that it was helpful. I will also be moving into using c64/c128 & Amiga trackers as well, as I can see this is the only real feasible option.

Actually trackers are not the only option when it comes to C64. There is a fantastic cartridge for the 64 called MSSIAH, which features modern-style audio production tools (Sequencer, Monosynth, Drummer, Bassline, Wave-Player) and a MIDI IN port on the cart itself for controlling them (although all can be controlled quite well from the C64 itself without external hardware if desired).

http://www.8bitventures.com/mssiah/

If you decided to install a second SID chip the MSSIAH can also take advantage of that. The creators of MSSIAH sell a DIY circuit board (SID2SID) with straightforward instructions for this mod, or you can buy a pre-assembled board elsewhere, like here:

http://koti.mbnet.fi/malinto/dualsid/index.shtml

The only drawback to MSSIAH is its price, but you don't be dissapointed (I love it... and own two).

If you're still looking for a tracker, check out John Player - perhaps not the most advanced tracker/editor ever made for the 64, I don't know, there are so many... but it's very capable and best of all very straightforward. I've got a lot of experience using PC trackers and yet still found myself struggling to learn some of the more popular oldschool ones for the 64 (i.e. DMC), so John Player was a huge relief and can do basically anything I'd want to do (on a stock C64):

http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=18767

Sorry to jump in with a bunch of C64 information, just thought it might be helpful since it's what I know and you mentioned it As for my journey into Atari 8-bit music making, that's only just begun. My main question there would be, are there any Atari XL trackers that can utilize both chip sounds AND digital samples?

[yerzmyey]

Mos6502:

> Sorry to jump in with a bunch of C64 information, just thought it might be helpful since it's what I know and you mentioned it
-----------------
No problem at all: the more informations - the better.


> As for my journey into Atari 8-bit music making, that's only just begun. My main question there would be, are there any Atari XL trackers that can utilize both chip sounds AND digital samples?
-------------
Yes, there is one, and it should be "Music Pro Tracker" with its MPT format.
2 channels of samples and 2 channels of synths.
Here I found some instruction (I treated it with GoogleTranslate)-
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... ptfrmt.htm

A friend from this forum, Analog, said that also our prog for converting samples from PC to Atari XL/XE (for NeoTracker) works fin with the MPT too:
http://yerzmyey.republika.pl/WAV_to_Atari_XL.zip

And the MusicProTracker itself is here:
http://gury.atari8.info/details_software/1334.htm


I have to admit I'm pretty curious about the prog and one day I will test it myself.
But I don't know at the moment if it's for Atari 64XE/800XL or for 130XE. Easy to check it out in emulator 'though.

Enjoy.

[yerzmyey]

Nerotik:

Greg was kind enough to provide his files from MidiSequencer program:
http://grayscale.scene.pl/download/greg ... ve-1.0.zip
(the ones with SEQ extension). They might be very helpful for You, while making Your own music.
He used CASIO CTK650 synthesizer.

[yerzmyey]

More infos from Greg (who was using the MIDI interface and soft - and made even an album with it!) -
Program "Midi Sequencer" uses general MIDI standard (so up to 128 instruments of GM). it uses only "MIDI OUT" commands, to control external instruments.

If You're interested how sounds Atari XL/XE with MIDI interface and a synthesizer - here is the "Voice of Silence VI - Expectancy" album made by Greg only with Atari 8bit and Casio synthesizer:
http://www.igf.edu.pl/~gregus/download/ ... /alone.mp3
http://www.igf.edu.pl/~gregus/download/ ... _world.mp3
http://www.igf.edu.pl/~gregus/download/ ... o_life.mp3
http://www.igf.edu.pl/~gregus/download/ ... /intro.mp3
http://www.igf.edu.pl/~gregus/download/ ... lenium.mp3
http://www.igf.edu.pl/~gregus/download/ ... ion%5D.mp3
http://www.igf.edu.pl/~gregus/download/ ... able_i.mp3
http://www.igf.edu.pl/~gregus/download/ ... ble_ii.mp3
http://www.igf.edu.pl/~gregus/download/ ... _music.mp3

So - that's what I know about the subject-matter. I do hope it helps You somehow.

Greetz (and Merry Christmas btw! ),
Yerz

[mos6502]

Happy New Year!

Yerz,
Any chance you have a line on other english info for MPT? I can run translations on the TXTs in the disk image if that's the only option. The included link was just a file format description, I doubt I'll be coding any player routines any time soon

MPT loads OK on my real 800XL. I don't have any songs to test out on it though. I need to find some...

Also, would you happen to know if Theta Music Composer 2 supports samples? Doesn't appear so but then again I'm not very knowledgeable at this point. It also looks like there are other Atari trackers... Music Tracker, Sound Tracker, etc. etc. - I'm guessing these are all old and not of much use today, which is why everyone seems to favor MPT, TMC or RMT.

Best to ya,
Owen

[mos6502]

On the topic of other music/sound editors and utilities, I discovered this list (although many of the links are broken):
http://gury.atari8.info/html_category/s_music.htm

[yerzmyey]

Mos6502:

> Happy New Year!
-------------
Thx dude.
Also the same to You and all readers.


> Yerz,
Any chance you have a line on other english info for MPT? I can run translations on the TXTs in the disk image if that's the only option. The included link was just a file format description, I doubt I'll be coding any player routines any time soon
-------------------
I checked out the TXT files included to the program but they're in Atari's TXT formats so I can see some words but generally - garbage. :-\ So cannot put them through a translator. :-\


> MPT loads OK on my real 800XL. I don't have any songs to test out on it though. I need to find some...
-------------
I copied some songs into disk:
http://yerzmyey.republika.pl/Mpt24s_songs_and_docs.ATR
*.smp are collections of samples to *.mpt songs with the same name. At least that's what I understand. But remember that for samples probably You'd need 128K or RAM (at least).
Ah, songs' loading and their samples' loading is in different places in the menu.


> Also, would you happen to know if Theta Music Composer 2 supports samples? Doesn't appear so but then again I'm not very knowledgeable at this point.
---------------
As far as I know, it doesn't. Although I don't make synthetic songs on XL/XE but I think this prog doesn't use samples.


> It also looks like there are other Atari trackers... Music Tracker, Sound Tracker, etc. etc. - I'm guessing these are all old and not of much use today, which is why everyone seems to favor MPT, TMC or RMT.
------------
Yes, exactly. The most popular was CMC (Chaos Music Composer) but it was years ago and now everybody use the progs You mentioned.
With RMT being a cross-platform PC tracker.


> Best to ya,
Owen
-------------
Greetzzzzzzzzz,
Y

[mos6502]

Going to check out your demo tracks provided... and I totally forgot about NeoTracker! Must copy that to disk as well. I'm trying to copy as many (useful) Atari music utilities to floppy disk as I can, as I need to give back this great SIO2PC/USB interface I'm borrowing from a friend

Thanks!

[mos6502]

Is NeoTracker still available anywhere? Lots of broken links...

[mos6502]

Actually, I tried moving the demo songs to a blank disk (successfully), but can't load them in MPT. The songs are on a separate disk that I'm putting in after I load MPT.

Do I have to have a DOS on every disk the Atari needs to read from? Insane

[yerzmyey]

Actually, I tried moving the demo songs to a blank disk (successfully), but can't load them in MPT. The songs are on a separate disk that I'm putting in after I load MPT.
Do I have to have a DOS on every disk the Atari needs to read from? Insane

The NeoTracker 1.8 is here (among others) -
http://yerzmyey.republika.pl/hard_disk.zip
There's an installer, so if You give me Your exact config, I can generate the neo.com initial file if You want.
If there is _now_ a neo.com, then it's for mine machine (which I made under emulator so probably it was something like 320K and one pokey).

As for the DOSes - yes, it's really strange for us, non-Atarians-XL, isn't it? But they're really proud of their hundreds of DOSes.
As far as I'm concerned, the DOS should be in ROM of computer and actually the diskdrive should be possibly mounted aboard the computer itself, hehe.
But DOS on every single diskette, and a DOS _taking RAM from the computer_?!?!!? That's scary, haha.
Sadly I can't help You with this, 'cause I use the XL/XE rarely and only as a tool/instrument, not for demoscene purposes (they know all about the 'DOS thingies').