Hi,
I would like to start a thread. Yes this one, to see how many users of the Atari TT030 there are on Atari Music Network.
Clearly there is I, and I know not a too a many others. However, it does seem like a great machine, and I would like to swap notes and tips!!
If you have one post here!!
List of TT users on Atari Music Network
Re: List of TT users on Atari Music Network
The odd thing is that because the TT was pretty much incompatible with all the major MIDI programs on launch, not many of them were bought for that and it\'s only with machines bought second hand that they have become more popular in MIDI use.
For example, if you ace a Notator or Creator user, the TT is a no-go zone as the software will not work. Only the newer Notator Logicworks on the TT, and many people didn't like that package. Also Cubase did not work until Cubase 3 was released, Cubase Audio works, but only because it is based on the Cubase 3 core code.
Another thing that went against the TT was its parent company, Atari who seemed to think that launching a machine was enough. Launch it and people will come, that may have been true of the Commodore Vic20 and 64, but by the time the TT was launched the world was a different place. The number of TT adverts seen in the UK press (Outside the Atari press) could be counted on the fingers of Captain Hooks bad hand. It wasn't that much better within the Atari press either, I think I saw 3 adverts and each one I saw once.
This was a massive shame as this was the most capable machine Atari released, and although they are a pig when things go wrong, when working and in use, they are literally the most graceful and responsive machines and can pretty much handle anything you throw at them (Except Notator and Creator).
For example, if you ace a Notator or Creator user, the TT is a no-go zone as the software will not work. Only the newer Notator Logicworks on the TT, and many people didn't like that package. Also Cubase did not work until Cubase 3 was released, Cubase Audio works, but only because it is based on the Cubase 3 core code.
Another thing that went against the TT was its parent company, Atari who seemed to think that launching a machine was enough. Launch it and people will come, that may have been true of the Commodore Vic20 and 64, but by the time the TT was launched the world was a different place. The number of TT adverts seen in the UK press (Outside the Atari press) could be counted on the fingers of Captain Hooks bad hand. It wasn't that much better within the Atari press either, I think I saw 3 adverts and each one I saw once.
This was a massive shame as this was the most capable machine Atari released, and although they are a pig when things go wrong, when working and in use, they are literally the most graceful and responsive machines and can pretty much handle anything you throw at them (Except Notator and Creator).
The collection:
Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44
The website and the Atari bit
Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44
The website and the Atari bit
Re: List of TT users on Atari Music Network
Hi Mal,
Once again a series of very interesting and salient points.
Your quite right. The advertising spend of this company must have have been small change. Of course Jack Tramiel was and is well known for his business conduct practices and operations under the Atari brand, and of course althouh we will probably never know the whole truth... unless of course he decides to sign up and become a member of this fine website, which would be cool ( could you resist trying to hit him with the banhammer?! lol) ... we may never know the full story, and only pick at it. It was interesting to read the articles by a blogger called DadHacker about the development of the ST, and of course the guy behind Gem, Gary Kildall. This article is an interesting read in case you have not already seen it http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/ ... ore-amiga/
The article linked makes the point that "The Mac was adopted for professional (paper) publishing. The Atari ST was adopted by musicians for its MIDI hardware and software. The Amiga was adopted by video production studios since its hardware capabilities fit in well with what they needed. ".
But the travesty is Mal, as you say, that NOBODY KNOW THIS lol! I have had an Atari ST since I was a nipper, and I'll have to admit, its great. Surprisingly useful, ahead of its time, elegant, simple and I can't believe what it will do with a weedy 8Mhz CPU. Simply amazing. And clearly, in its field the Amiga was also useful too.
What Atari never did was to advertise. And lets compare this to Apple. For example, Apple would spend what, 2.5 million just to buy out all the pages in Newsweek in the 80's. Even now, their marketing budget us mental. They are and always have been a marketing company. And to be bluntly honest. The Atari machines share the same architectural 68000 base but are vastly more powerful, and were effectively colour Mac, minus the ridiculous 8" black and white screen, and limitations, and in fact, unlike the toy computer, actually useful for creative or hard core desktop publishing. Look at the Germans and Netherlands, where really these machines were the only place to sell in quantity. And the machines were used for the old DTP and business, till very recently. Perhaps Apple could have sold more, if they did not always go for the fancy marketing and "toy computer" marketing gimmick (and they still do!). The TT for example is a massively powerful machine, and to be honest, beats my first PC (from 1999) hands down. And certainly in terms of creative use, and simply the aspects of computing long forgotten since Microsoft addled our minds with bloat-ware and frighteningly unintuitive OS and computers we cant control as a user, it is refreshing. Perhaps the way these machines should have been, the way the creative and idealistic designers of these machines had intended. They were architectural constructions of many years of intense caring work, and electronic achievement. Each one in a way a thing of beauty, as we know that we will never have computers like this again. Now things are mass produced, inexpensive, and created not for love, but for more complex and opaque business reasons.
But I digress. I actually met recently with the famous industrial designer Sebastian Conran http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Conran and http://www.sebastianconran.com/. Now this was while I was on my way to Germany, and you may or may now know that I am also an Industrial Designer http://www.thebigconsultant.com althoug not as famous!! I was on the invite of a company asking me to design some products for them. I actually had not realised this was Sebastian Conran, but I did have a 3 hour conversation with him that was very interesting.
(i) Regarding the importance of visual communication and the language of industrial design. I learned a lot!
(ii) He regaled me with stories about Apple Macintosh, and of course like many highly creative and tallented designers, he is a fan.
I would not be surprised if he has designed products for Apple as well as other high profile companies in his portfolio. But I also discussed Atari with him, and I'll have to admit, that I am the Industrial Design equivalent of Atari. The ideas are great, but no one has heard of them. Even I with my "brand loyalty" to the company, that we all get when we buy cars etc, did not initially know that Atari had made the worlds first lightweight usable clamshell laptop (better than Apples breezeblock and more powerful too!). Not only that, but it would be interesting to compare, like for like Apple and Atari machines. Atari never seemed to capitalise on this technological lead of at least what, 3 years, and the ST Pad http://www.old-computers.com/museum/com ... st=1&c=269, well. This machine I believe was made with the ST Book tachnology, and they built only a couple. But haven't Apple been amazingly innovative by inventing the IPad. Simply amazing.
Anyway, the upshot is the only you and I currently are reaping the benefits of owning a very rare, yet still strangely useful, and creative machine and piece of history. Like a classic Morgan, but for music!
Yes the TT was not at all marketed it seems for music, and was way way way too overpriced for it, and probably overpowered perhaps. You dont need CPU for music, just something that does not hinder and provides the tools to create intuitively, with no annoyance. And this my friend is it, and a rare thing, that would go well with some vintage crunchy equipment. I need to get me some 1974 Fender Rhodes electric piano samples, and some other bits and bobs for the Akai S2800 and I will be all set!!
Once again a series of very interesting and salient points.
Your quite right. The advertising spend of this company must have have been small change. Of course Jack Tramiel was and is well known for his business conduct practices and operations under the Atari brand, and of course althouh we will probably never know the whole truth... unless of course he decides to sign up and become a member of this fine website, which would be cool ( could you resist trying to hit him with the banhammer?! lol) ... we may never know the full story, and only pick at it. It was interesting to read the articles by a blogger called DadHacker about the development of the ST, and of course the guy behind Gem, Gary Kildall. This article is an interesting read in case you have not already seen it http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/ ... ore-amiga/
The article linked makes the point that "The Mac was adopted for professional (paper) publishing. The Atari ST was adopted by musicians for its MIDI hardware and software. The Amiga was adopted by video production studios since its hardware capabilities fit in well with what they needed. ".
But the travesty is Mal, as you say, that NOBODY KNOW THIS lol! I have had an Atari ST since I was a nipper, and I'll have to admit, its great. Surprisingly useful, ahead of its time, elegant, simple and I can't believe what it will do with a weedy 8Mhz CPU. Simply amazing. And clearly, in its field the Amiga was also useful too.
What Atari never did was to advertise. And lets compare this to Apple. For example, Apple would spend what, 2.5 million just to buy out all the pages in Newsweek in the 80's. Even now, their marketing budget us mental. They are and always have been a marketing company. And to be bluntly honest. The Atari machines share the same architectural 68000 base but are vastly more powerful, and were effectively colour Mac, minus the ridiculous 8" black and white screen, and limitations, and in fact, unlike the toy computer, actually useful for creative or hard core desktop publishing. Look at the Germans and Netherlands, where really these machines were the only place to sell in quantity. And the machines were used for the old DTP and business, till very recently. Perhaps Apple could have sold more, if they did not always go for the fancy marketing and "toy computer" marketing gimmick (and they still do!). The TT for example is a massively powerful machine, and to be honest, beats my first PC (from 1999) hands down. And certainly in terms of creative use, and simply the aspects of computing long forgotten since Microsoft addled our minds with bloat-ware and frighteningly unintuitive OS and computers we cant control as a user, it is refreshing. Perhaps the way these machines should have been, the way the creative and idealistic designers of these machines had intended. They were architectural constructions of many years of intense caring work, and electronic achievement. Each one in a way a thing of beauty, as we know that we will never have computers like this again. Now things are mass produced, inexpensive, and created not for love, but for more complex and opaque business reasons.
But I digress. I actually met recently with the famous industrial designer Sebastian Conran http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Conran and http://www.sebastianconran.com/. Now this was while I was on my way to Germany, and you may or may now know that I am also an Industrial Designer http://www.thebigconsultant.com althoug not as famous!! I was on the invite of a company asking me to design some products for them. I actually had not realised this was Sebastian Conran, but I did have a 3 hour conversation with him that was very interesting.
(i) Regarding the importance of visual communication and the language of industrial design. I learned a lot!
(ii) He regaled me with stories about Apple Macintosh, and of course like many highly creative and tallented designers, he is a fan.
I would not be surprised if he has designed products for Apple as well as other high profile companies in his portfolio. But I also discussed Atari with him, and I'll have to admit, that I am the Industrial Design equivalent of Atari. The ideas are great, but no one has heard of them. Even I with my "brand loyalty" to the company, that we all get when we buy cars etc, did not initially know that Atari had made the worlds first lightweight usable clamshell laptop (better than Apples breezeblock and more powerful too!). Not only that, but it would be interesting to compare, like for like Apple and Atari machines. Atari never seemed to capitalise on this technological lead of at least what, 3 years, and the ST Pad http://www.old-computers.com/museum/com ... st=1&c=269, well. This machine I believe was made with the ST Book tachnology, and they built only a couple. But haven't Apple been amazingly innovative by inventing the IPad. Simply amazing.
Anyway, the upshot is the only you and I currently are reaping the benefits of owning a very rare, yet still strangely useful, and creative machine and piece of history. Like a classic Morgan, but for music!
Yes the TT was not at all marketed it seems for music, and was way way way too overpriced for it, and probably overpowered perhaps. You dont need CPU for music, just something that does not hinder and provides the tools to create intuitively, with no annoyance. And this my friend is it, and a rare thing, that would go well with some vintage crunchy equipment. I need to get me some 1974 Fender Rhodes electric piano samples, and some other bits and bobs for the Akai S2800 and I will be all set!!
Re: List of TT users on Atari Music Network
I love the TT030, in fact I have three, one of them, equipped with the Startrack card in the VME bus. 
Re: List of TT users on Atari Music Network
Now that is interesting, at some point do you mind if I get in touch with you about the Startrack card to ask a few questions?CapeLinuX wrote:I love the TT030, in fact I have three, one of them, equipped with the Startrack card in the VME bus.
The collection:
Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44
The website and the Atari bit
Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44
The website and the Atari bit
Re: List of TT users on Atari Music Network
I do not have a TT or a MEGA STE even.....but I have TWO Falcon 030!
For MIDI sequencing I would maybe say that the next best thing to an ST, would be a Yamaha QY700. This is floppy disk based but could maybe be upgraded to use flash media. I've used all the QY range and I currently own a QY100 which is great, but many of the bread and butter functions are within menus requiring multiple small button pushes. This one uses SmartMedia cards and has a guitar/mic preamp. Hey last week I saw a Yamaha DJX local to me and thought what the *, so I bought it! It reminds me a lot of my old Yamaha PSS790 which was brilliant; fast, simple and great for getting ideas down with no fuss; power on, a few quick button presses and five minutes later you have a full eight track arrangement! Try doing this with a PC!
NCGM
For MIDI sequencing I would maybe say that the next best thing to an ST, would be a Yamaha QY700. This is floppy disk based but could maybe be upgraded to use flash media. I've used all the QY range and I currently own a QY100 which is great, but many of the bread and butter functions are within menus requiring multiple small button pushes. This one uses SmartMedia cards and has a guitar/mic preamp. Hey last week I saw a Yamaha DJX local to me and thought what the *, so I bought it! It reminds me a lot of my old Yamaha PSS790 which was brilliant; fast, simple and great for getting ideas down with no fuss; power on, a few quick button presses and five minutes later you have a full eight track arrangement! Try doing this with a PC!
NCGM
Re: List of TT users on Atari Music Network
Of course, I will try to answer your questionsmal7921 wrote:Now that is interesting, at some point do you mind if I get in touch with you about the Startrack card to ask a few questions?CapeLinuX wrote:I love the TT030, in fact I have three, one of them, equipped with the Startrack card in the VME bus.
Re: List of TT users on Atari Music Network
Whoa. The Starrack is an awesome card! It would be great to get some hi res scans of this, if you ever need to clean or repair it! It has the Falcon DSP on it does'nt it?CapeLinuX wrote:I love the TT030, in fact I have three, one of them, equipped with the Startrack card in the VME bus.
I wonder if there is a source for these DSP's around?
Aha! I just came across this quote, translated from German (as always!)
TT and Hades with several VME slots
It is possible to extend the TT or Hades VME connection with a VME backplane to several (2-4) VME slots. This allows you to operate at the TT as the audio card without having to give up his beloved graphic cards. Such a backplane is available with SWE on request. However, no guarantee for the functionality / compatibility of the various VME cards with the VME Extensions are given. Previous experience but it should work.
Its at this website here http://www.stcarchiv.de/stc1998/04_startrack.php
Can anyone tell me if Falcon DSP's are available anyway, or indeed what they are / were and where to get them from? I bet the majority of the StarTrack is just useless discrete components that just are not needed any more with the programmable microcontrollers now on the market.
Also more on Startrack here http://www.stcarchiv.de/stc1997/03_startrack.php
Says that the "VME bus on the TT has been mutilated by Atari" lol So maybe, this is a problem eh!?
Mal, perhaps you could put some info on these pages and other info onto AMN sometime? I bet this is your plan anyways eh? Quite remarkable.
Clearly a TT with this is definitely a Falcon beater! Unless I am mistaken, this is very seriously cool!
You swine! I have never even seen one. And those Yamaha sound pretty tasty too. I will have to look into these and similar instruments as cash allows!NCGM wrote:I do not have a TT or a MEGA STE even.....but I have TWO Falcon 030!
So then there were three!!
Re: List of TT users on Atari Music Network
The 56000 series DSP chips were pretty common and used in quite a few places. The big surprise really is that Apple didn't use them in the AV Quadra's, choosing the Texas Instruments DSP instead, which was slower, didn't have as many functions and generally was no better than the 68030 in the Falcon (And the AV's had 68040's in them!)
But I digress, the DSP in the Falcon was also found in many effects processors of the time, and was still in use in these long after the Falcon had vanished from the retail channels. The family of ships that it came from were ideal at manipulating data and found their way into audio processors, video processors, medical equipment, telephony systems, in fact any place where digital data needed quick and efficient manipulation.
While developer boards used the 56000, the Falcon used the slightly updated 56001, which was fully backward compatible, and had some speed and efficiency improvements.
More info on the 56000 DSP's can be found here.
But I digress, the DSP in the Falcon was also found in many effects processors of the time, and was still in use in these long after the Falcon had vanished from the retail channels. The family of ships that it came from were ideal at manipulating data and found their way into audio processors, video processors, medical equipment, telephony systems, in fact any place where digital data needed quick and efficient manipulation.
While developer boards used the 56000, the Falcon used the slightly updated 56001, which was fully backward compatible, and had some speed and efficiency improvements.
More info on the 56000 DSP's can be found here.
The collection:
Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44
The website and the Atari bit
Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44
The website and the Atari bit
Re: List of TT users on Atari Music Network
I have a TT but don't currently use it. In the past I ran Cubase on it and what a joy that was with the TT195 monitor! I would not mind returning to that setup, but with legit Cubase v3 going for $150+ I can't justify it.
I've also run Maxymiser on it, and some of the various freeware/libbed sequencers out there... and KCS Omega. Geez it is fast.
Anybody want it? MightyMic RAM board w/16 mb TT RAM, 4 MB ST RAM. HD floppy. Make me an offer and you can become one of the few TT users on this board
I've also run Maxymiser on it, and some of the various freeware/libbed sequencers out there... and KCS Omega. Geez it is fast.
Anybody want it? MightyMic RAM board w/16 mb TT RAM, 4 MB ST RAM. HD floppy. Make me an offer and you can become one of the few TT users on this board
Re: List of TT users on Atari Music Network
You need to let people know whereabouts in the world you are; USA I presume? It will go to a good home though! 
NCGM
NCGM
Re: List of TT users on Atari Music Network
Haha sorry, I thought that I'd put down that I'm in the USA but must've deleted it.
Re: List of TT users on Atari Music Network
Well, if you check the Cubase pages here, you could once again use Cubase on it...
And legit Cubase... Check the UK ebay pages as they are often cheaper than that over here (Plus would help boost the selling price of the TT in future)
And legit Cubase... Check the UK ebay pages as they are often cheaper than that over here (Plus would help boost the selling price of the TT in future
)The collection:
Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44
The website and the Atari bit
Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm, STacy, Mega ST2
Atari STe, Mega STE, ST Book
Atari TT030, with 2GB Hard drive
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive
Atari Megafile 44
The website and the Atari bit
Re: List of TT users on Atari Music Network
Hello everyone. I'd like to take this opportunity to add my collection of TT machines to this query. I too also own A startrak card, It would be interesting to find out just what it can do. Currently though it is attached to my Hades and that unfortunately is sick & not working..
I am not musically capable persay, but have always had a facination for the Music side of Atari machines.
I too would be interested to get together with other TT users that are into music as I am seeking an insight and perhaps some guidance as to what this machine is capable of.
I am not musically capable persay, but have always had a facination for the Music side of Atari machines.
I too would be interested to get together with other TT users that are into music as I am seeking an insight and perhaps some guidance as to what this machine is capable of.
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